If it makes anyone feel better, he is basically anti-Thalia. He removes her effect, gives you another, and beats her in combat.
Best posts made by Water0
Thing in the Ice feat. Scab-Clan Berserker
I'm kinda new around here (this will be my first post), but I have been lurking for a couple weeks. I wanted to share a deck with everyone that has been giving me very good results online (I've lost 2 matches to someone else playing BUG Thing in the Ice and Eldrazi). I will admit that I'm not exactly an expert on this deck since I've only played about 18 matches with it, but I have absolutely destroyed almost all of my opponents.
I initially thought about this deck thanks to @Islandswamp 's article on mtggoldfish, but I didn't have any success in my matches. Then I saw Rich Shay's deck here which I mostly copied. I'll admit I don't like copying decks, so I did make a few changes; but his list was so solid there wasn't a lot to change at first. I ran through almost everyone with the amazing wombo combo of TITI and Scab-Clan Berserker (hereafter "SCB"). I did run into a very difficult opponent in the white Eldrazi deck that recently popped up. I took a page out of LSV's book who splashed white for Swords/Path on VSL and have been happy with my list so far.
If you prefer to see the cards listed out or can't access deckstats.net for some reason, I'll post the list here:
4 Thing in the Ice
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dig Through Time
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Dack Fayden
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Containment Priest
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Serene Master
1 Path to Exile
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Mindbreak Trap
I'll talk about some of the cards I'm playing, their strengths/weaknesses, and why I'm playing them (possibly over something else).
Thing in the Ice
TITI is BIG especially for vintage. This means it can tango with basically any creature in the format and win including Griselbrand if they need to block for some reason. TITI kills almost as quickly as Monastery Mentor does and will often kill in 2 attacks backed up with Lightning Bolt since most decks will do at least 3 damage to themselves (probe/misstep + fetch) putting them at the magic number 17. Some decks will even do more damage to themselves meaning TITI kills in 2 attacks all by itself.
TITI returns basically all other creatures to their owner's hand (barring Phyrexian Revoker of course). This clears up monk/elemental tokens, removes blockers, puts Oath'd up creatures back in their hand, and even gives the deck a chance vs Dredge game 1 by returning zombie tokens or a Dread Return target back to their hand.
TITI does not go wide like Mentor or Pyromancer which leaves it vulnerable to removal. Luckily it dodges Dismember once flipped (and can still be relevant in combat as a 2/3 for the turn), but Swords are going to get it pretty easily. You can definitely fight Swords with Misstep however.
TITI does nothing on the front side. If you can't flip it, it's an okay blocker. Personally I have rarely been in a situation where I could not flip it in 2 turns; and if you can't flip it, you'd probably be losing if you had Pyromancer or Mentor instead.
Damage. The damage from SCB adds up FAST against almost all decks in the format. It can easily wreck Mentor, artifact heavy decks like Belcher/Welder/Tezzerator, and storm. SCB honestly wins games all by itself, and I am very happy to use Lotus to get it out asap. If your opponent does not have an immediate answer to it, they will take a lot of damage digging for an answer and possibly even more fighting you to get it off the table. It also attacks for 3 since most decks don't have a ton of blockers.
Quite frankly it's almost a dead card against some decks like Shops, Eldrazi, and Dredge. It's not particularly good in combat nor does it really do much damage assuming it connects. This is the main reason I've followed Rich's 2 main 1 side plan, but it could easily be correct to run 3 main deck and just cut them if they're dead since they're so good vs many decks.
I don't really have a pros and cons section for this card since they're kind of obvious, but I have been very impressed with this card despite thinking it probably isn't that great in the format. 3 damage to the face has been so relevant so many games you might be surprised. I've had an opponent Oath up Griselbrand, draw 7 down to 3, and die to my Lightning Bolt. It kills Mentor (assuming you cast it in response to some triggers), Jace if they don't +2, all of those lovely annoying hatebears, and can easily throw a wrench in any plan if you have a resolved SCB doing work on their life total.
Path to Exile
I might have some weird numbers in the deck since I trimmed some of the cards to make room for this main deck. I'm running this over Swords since several decks can't get a basic land, it doesn't really matter for us, and we absolutely do care about the opponent's life total. It's not the most impactful card against Mentor or most combo decks, but it puts in work vs Shops, Eldrazi, and Oath.
Containment Priest - Obviously a super great card against Dredge and Oath. Hits Show and Tell which Grafdigger's Cage cannot and also avoids Mental Misstep
Ravenous Trap - Dredge is always a scary deck, and you need some dedicated hate. I like this over some of the other options like Rest in Peace since their anti hate cards don't work on RT. It also has does some splash damage against Oath decks who want to win with Yawgmoth's Will or Auriok Salvagers.
Serenity - Mostly there for Shops/Belcher/Painter/etc, but it's not a bad card vs Storm since you can often take out 2-3 mana sources at once. I honestly haven't seen anywhere near as much Shops as I did when Lodestone Golem was unrestricted, but I would never go down all my Shops hate unless I were very confident there would be none at a tournament or event.
Path to Exile - More answers for the Eldrazi deck and not an awful card vs Oath. You might consider bringing this in vs Shops or other decks with lots of creatures as well.
Serene Master - I haven't really had that many chances to test this card, but it seems like a good one vs any heavy creature deck. It blocks and wins unless the other creature has Equipment or +1/+1 counters (found this out the hard way vs Endless One).
Scab-Clan Berserker - I have an extra copy here to bring in vs several decks, but it's not always amazing; so I think a split between main and side is correct.
Wear//Tear - A flexible card that can often hit what ails you from Oath of Druids to Time Vault to Belcher. I'd feel strange not running this card in a deck with RW, but you could replace it with a more dedicated piece of hate if you don't think you need enchantment removal.
Mindbreak Trap - Just a single copy as an extra counter and possibly against storm. Might be better as a Flusterstorm though I do like the idea of exiling an Eldrazi cast off Cavern of Souls.
Plains - This was mostly here to help cast Serenity/Path to Exile against a deck with several Wastelands (looking at you, Shops/Eldrazi), but this may serve you better as something else.
Like I said, I haven't tested this deck a ton, so I'll be going off my general vintage experience for some matchups.
Mentor - This should be a relatively easy match considering the deck is basically set up to beat Mentor. TITI and SCB are both great cards against the deck, and we have more than enough removal to get Mentor off the table plus Pyroblast to give us a great 1 mana counterspell. No matchup is infallible especially in vintage where you can have an okay hand vs your opponent's Black Lotus Mentor Ancestral Recall turn 1, but you should be happy to see Mentor across the table.
Artifact Heavy Combo Decks - I feel kinda weird lumping all of these decks into the same category, but you should have a similar matchup no matter if your opponent is on Belcher or Tezzerator. SCB is very strong if you can get it down early vs their numerous artifact accelerators and filtering cards. TITI is not the best here, but it is still a quick clock you'll want to insure you can close the game before you die. You might want to include more artifact hate on your sideboard if you're running into these often, but Serenity will be a slam dunk if you can hit 3 things.
Shops - I honestly have not played against Shops with this deck at all, and there are roughly 8 dead cards main deck between Misstep, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, and SCB. Hopefully Path should help you a little game 1 before you can sideboard into your dedicated hate. If you see this matchup as frequently as I did pre Lodestone restriction, you will want to consider cards like Steel Sabotage (Ceremonious Rejection?) main deck and possibly Pulverize on your sideboard.
Eldrazi - This matchup gave me a lot of problems the one time I did play against it, but Awoken Horror being a 7/8 gives you a better chance than decks playing stuff like Pyromancer or Mentor. I have quite a few sideboard slots dedicated for this matchup, but I definitely need more testing to know if there's enough (or even too much).
Storm - Sadly, I also have not played against Storm much with this deck, but SCB is definitely very strong against this deck. In the only match I did play vs Storm, my opponent conceded immediately to SCB. I feel like the deck has enough disruption combined with a must-answer threat in SCB to make this matchup relatively easy. Storm is always scary, and you may want to add some more sideboard hate cards if this deck is common in your meta.
Oath - Sadly, we're looking to win with creatures making this matchup kinda awkward, but TITI does give us a chance by bouncing their creature. Overall, I think this shouldn't be too difficult considering our plethora of counterspells, SCB punishing them for digging to hit Oath or Orchard, and Path to exile their Oath targets.
That's about all I have to say about the deck for now. Please ask any questions or provide any feedback; I'm always looking to improve the deck or this primer. If you want to test vs this deck, I play on Xmage.
I absolutely must give a special thanks to Rich Shay for being both the mad scientist of vintage and a very intelligent player/deck creator. I hope you see this post, Rich, and I hope I didn't give away your super secret tech for upcoming VSL matches.
RE: R&D is completely incompetent
It's been blatantly clear to me (and many others) that the current development team has almost no idea what they're doing because if they do, they are either horribly misguided or almost pure evil. They have a very strict idea of what should be both fun and playable that hardly matches up with what the players actually want. I haven't heard people say they were happy with standard in a long time, and I've personally hated modern basically since I tried it.
I play vintage because I can have a fun, somewhat diverse (when not every single person is on shops or PO) format whereI can actually brew successfully. Brewing in standard will just result in you losing to whatever deck jammed the most cards R&D decided should be the most powerful this time around that the pros already discovered weeks ago.
I could go on forever, but I want to say that no Wrath of God or Llanowar Elves when Gideon and Sylvan Advocate are fine is just.. baffling.
RE: Revisiting cards as vintage evolves
I've been playing Thoughtseize, Hymn, and Liliana in a BUG Leovold deck I've been testing, and I rarely sideboard them out or have even considered removing them from the deck. Sure, Liliana can be bad depending on the opponent's deck, but I can say that about any card. Bob looks great until you're sitting across from burn, Mental Misstep is awesome until they have zero 1 mana spells in their deck, etc. Thoughtseize has more or less single handedly won me games, and Hymn just feels dirty to cast every time. I may be getting too cute, but I know multiple forms of disruption is how you beat combo decks consistently; and hand disruption can make counter battles awkward for the opponent.
Latest posts made by Water0
RE: The state of Blue vs Blue
@Brass-Man Well, if you want to play blue for some reason, you should probably have Tinker and maybe some cards that care about your artifacts like Thoughtcast or Reverse Engineer. Mishra's Workshop is still one of (the best?) cards you can play in the format; so I don't see why you wouldn't be playing it outside of some janky combo deck. It's the most consistent, best deck, has always been, and always will be.
RE: April 24th, 2017 Banned and Restricted update: GUSH AND PROBE/TOP in Legacy
@MSolymossy Peek is instant. Boom.
@fsecco Portent looks surprisingly not terrible, huh.
[RAV] Spell Snare
With people looking to fill open slots in their deck, I think we already have the perfect answer. I can only imagine that shops (and probably oath) will increase in popularity, and Spell Snare neatly answers most of their deck for the low, low price of U.
Spell Snare sees a lot of play in other formats, and I've been surprised by the lack of play in vintage. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think it's time for the little guy to shine.
@garbageaggro I see all of your points here, but the alternative is running a 3 mana sorcery that's more likely going to cost 4 or even 5 when Bob is not taxed by Thorn. Bob ONLY loses to Walking Ballista against shops; Painful Truths loses to their entire deck.
I already got Andy's opinion on Dark Confidant, but I am appalled by the lack of Bob in this thread. I've played many games with it in a similar deck, and I would not even think about playing Painful Truths especially in this format where no one plays removal (no, 4 Swords is not "removal").
RE: Building a Vintage gauntlet
You definitely want to practice against Shops (something like this), Mentor (here), Oath (something like this but it could be different creatures/no Saheeli), PO storm, and that's about it. Shops and Mentor are basically the entire metagame according to both MTGGoldfish and mtgtop8, so you definitely need to have a chance against both if you want to have a successful deck.
Grafdigger's Cage is a popular sideboard card since it helps against both Oath and Dredge (not super common but a deck that is played), but many Oath lists are just running castable creatures; so they don't even need to use Oath to win. Outside of that, it really depends on your deck, your colors, and what the meta says.
RE: Duplicant versus mentor?
I think Spatial Contortion is criminally underplayed, and I'm glad Andy mentioned it; but Walking Ballista is realistically what you should be playing as your primary answer to creatures with some sort of backup (that preferably doesn't lose to Null Rod).
RE: White Eldrazi
@Smmenen The first point of your post is exactly why I moved away from Eldrazi Temple/Ancient Tomb and basically went mono white. The mana in that deck can be an absolute nightmare at times, and I've been much happier with my matches since. You do lose out on a few more explosive turns and TKS, but I never even tried Reality Smasher since I didn't think what basically amounts to a dragon is good enough for this format. That's obviously not to say that it isn't as it's won many games including against me, but I'm not sold on the 5/5 trample haste for 5 in a world where you can just die to Tendrils.
I definitely think the deck is strong; but like you said, it really limits what you can include in your deck both mainboard and sideboard. Thankfully, due to the recent upswing in popularity for Fragmentize, I don't think playing Null Rod over Stony Silence is really a liability at this point (assuming that's a card you want to play- and I think it is).