@brass-man Oh boy, that takes me back. From memory the Drain Shop deck used Chalice for 1-2 to hose, Crucible for card advantage and Nev disk to sweep if things went bad, as well as the big blue cards. It was pure control and killed with Platinum Angel or another big robot.
I only saw one person pilot it and he always asked his decklist not be disclosed.
I created Bomberman and yes, it didn't take off in the US before I went to a few SCG P9 event with it. I didn't know Dragon was Canadian thought.
Sounds like we can't have taxing decks in Vintage anymore. It's all "let me do my thing and let's see who does it faster".
Yeah, it's exactly my impression of what Vintage has been for a long time. When a new blue card gets printed, everyone is super happy to have a new toy, but when a new hate card gets printed, people throw a tantrum because they can't use their toys like they want. Seems the only type of interaction people are willing to accept is counterspells because it's somehow "fairer" to gets things countered instead of not being able to play them.
"Come on, are we really complaining about a non-existent problem?"
Seems like it, I can't remember a single hate-bear deck putting decent and steady results in tournaments. Seems like people are afraid to lose games against random rogues decks.
I'm really enjoying this set so far which is full of "What would a Vintage staple look like if we didn't mess up the design the first time."
This is the best example. Costing 2 and having an activated ability of 1 is strong, but reasonable. And Welder, nor the color pie or abilities in general, are meant to just permit exchanges in the opponent's graveyard.
That said, I would have never thought of adding a built-in Entomb, and I think it's great flavor!
However also consider a wasteland.
Activate wasteland, targeting opponents land. Trigger draw.
Resolve wasteland and destroy opponents land. Trigger draw.
This only triggers for lands put into your graveyard, otherwise that would be a whole different beast.
Oh, bonus factor, if it's in Magic Arena, it might be because they need to play a certain amount of spells/damage for the daily quest and doing so while winning is much faster.
I had Experimental Frenzy in play and would play 3-4 spells a turn while my opponent was at 2. I could bolt him at any time, but it was more efficient to get my quest chaining spells.
@thecravenone That's clearly not the point and you're just being absurd.
A turn 1-2 Lodestone followed by another lock piece left you very little time to find an answer.
Mentor also usually gave you 2-3 turns to find an answer.
Creature removal was clearly not good against Lodestone and Mentor, but it's fine against this guy.
This guy prevents you from playing Moxen and betwen 0-6 spells in your deck, is a very slow clock and gets a lot worse as the game progresses.
Also, if you want it early every game, you need to run more copies, making it a risk since it's legendary.
"What happens when you fill your deck with 3 Plows and Karakas and your opponent just combos out? Or worse, you just don't draw them in time."
If you don't want to run answers to hate cards that's fine, but you can't complain about cards that prevent you from goldfishing if you're unwilling to answer them.
The deck I hate playing against the most is hatebears because there is next to no decision making for me. Do I have the removal? Yes? Awesome, I will most likely win. Do I not have the removal?
You can replace hatebears here by basically any threat control has. Oh Jace, I have no answer, I lose. Oh, a giant robot, no answer, I lose.
Is it really that difficult to be able to make a deck that can reliably find answers? Isn't that pretty much all blue decks have been doing forever?
I'm all for it, simply because I prefer to play with proxies than to not play.
We had plenty of tournaments 10 years ago, and even a provincial Vintage championship with invitations during the golden age of Vintage.
Then the prices started to rise, most older players in my community decided to cash out and get a down payment on a house instead.
Very few younger players were able to afford competitive decks, even in a 10 proxy event. It ended up being the players who kept their cards crushing the younger players, who just never came back, and I don't blame them. I wouldn't play a format where I get blown out just because I don't have money to be competitive.
Within 2 years, all the tournaments stopped and now I can't play competitive Vintage at all, even if I still have all my card.