Posts made by vaughnbros
posted in Vintage News read more

@albarkhane

A lot of people already do this against Dredge. They just happen to have 7-8 hate pieces so its pretty high odds, even under current mulligan rules.

posted in Vintage News read more

@hrishi

Considering you have to mulligan all the way to a single card to get that probability, I'd say it doesn't open up much at all. Maybe Tolarian decks are slightly more viable, but its not like you can cut your cards that search for lands.

posted in Vintage Community read more

Power level bans and partial restrictions go away from the general concept that the format has been running on for the last 20+ years. These aren't really practical solutions. Mass restrictions, or unrestrictions do stay in line with format in a sense.

Restricting Bazaar, Workshop, Island-Subtype likely also won't happen. These are too important to what the format is currently, and would cause too much of a shake-up.

Printing cards won't happen, at least not to the benefit of the format. Most printings make parts of the format worse. The only major printings I can recall that were good for the format were Dack Fayden, and Dredge/Oath hate. The key here is that these are high level hate pieces that curtail certain strategies. They've kind of done away with really great anti-Blue hate (mostly just like 3 mana hate bears), but we could certainly use cards that fall under that umbrella. I highly doubt printing Mini-Bazaar that taps for mana, or Ugin's Temple Artifact Variety would be good for the format, even if they were printed.

All this said, Brian brings up a discussion on things that haven't been the current trajectory. Perhaps that is a "new format", but to him this is still Vintage. To many of us, dramatic changes could be made and the format would be still be Vintage. This current iteration of Vintage is certainly not the Vintage that I grew up playing, where I played my restricted Mind over Matter. In a few years, we will have yet another iteration of Vintage as new cards get printed and more restrictions probably do occur at some point.

posted in Vintage Strategy read more

@chubbyrain

I think its less about the number of games being played, and more about anyones ability to properly adjust to what will be a new metagame. I mean, I can take a Blue/Shops deck and jam in more Dredge hate to the main deck for a few weeks, but its unlikely that my first iterations of these decks are optimal in the slightest.

posted in Vintage Strategy read more

Is there precedent for them doing such extensive live testing of a rule change?

I think that its good that they are actually going to try to use some empirical evidence for this, although I question how much can really be determined in less than a month.

posted in Vintage News read more

@fsecco

Not necessarily. A mull to a 1 Bazaar hand against a 1 Leyline hand is pretty brutal.

posted in Vintage News read more

@chubbyrain

I think it opens up the deck quite a bit to new possibilities and opens up other deck to a potential willingness to run main deck hate, which would change the book on dredge completely.

The benefit to opponent's post board is also very noteworthy as it will much easier for them to find a hate piece, and a hate piece with a higher hand size. I'd love to see the graphic Evouga produced, but with 4,5,6,7,8,9 hate pieces from opponents mulliganing to hate (I mean I guess the 4 is kind of there and you can see someone could basically just lock in a leyline if they don't mind top decking the rest of the game).

posted in Vintage Community read more

@craw_advantage

Mostly that's because they actually test Standard as a format. Occasionally they do print a combo that they have to ban though.

posted in Vintage News read more

@chubbyrain

Currently, no, but that's because there isn't much advantage to doing so right now with Hollow One and the mulligan rule as it is. If this change is made, there is more incentive to work on that.

The Dark Depths transformation persisted for years as the best Dredge deck on MODO. I don't think its a question of your opponents response. You are always still a threat to not transform.

posted in Vintage News read more

@chubbyrain

It depends on your plan post sideboard. The gold line is overall higher, but the left tail that determines whether or not you have Bazaar is the most important one. Cutting Powder completely from a list potentially opens up the deck to be that much easier to transform into something that isn't Dredge post sideboard.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@trius

This is a great analogy. There were actually quite a few major rule changes in the NBA due to Wilt and players like him. Specifically, they tried to curtail Wilt and other big men by making a slight adjustment of widening the lane from 12 to 16 feet. That didn't really work. They added the 3, about 20 years later, which made perimeter players more important, but the big man was still dominant. Finally, they allowed players to play zone defense in the early 2000s and we've seen the dawn of perimeter players in the NBA perhaps the most exciting the game has ever been. Its still the NBA, but they made rules changes to make it more competitive so its not just about being bigger and taller than your opponent, but smaller more skilled players like Steph Curry can win you championships.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@brianpk80

Bazaar is more efficient, but so graveyard hate. There isn’t a 0 mana Hurkyls (Crypt, Rav trap), a leyline that states no artifacts can be played (Void), cards that say Workshop doesn’t work (Needle, Glass) or numerous permanents that cut off large portions of your deck (Priest, Cage). If we printed hate cards as powerful as the ones Dredge sees then we probably don’t have an issue with these other decks.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@mediumsteve

I think before undertaking that task getting input from the community as a whole would be helpful. Its different creating a format from scratch because your playgroup is basically the entire community. If the community is completely resistant to the idea then the major undertaking of the testing would be done in folly.

As someone who has taken part in creating a format (Middle School), decisions about card legality and rules were made with a lot of research and testing. I expect the same from my peers.

Did you do this systematically and if so do you have a write up on the methods that you used to develop this list?
(E.g. Was someone responsible for breaking a particular card? Were there specific set time periods / number of matches before you would add/subtract another card?) Any and all information would be helpful.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@chubbyrain

If you want to have a discussion then we discuss, not a debate where we all draw lines in the sand and only say Yay! or Nay! if that were the case, Brian could've just put a poll in the initial post. This discussion about derailment is itself a bigger derailment than any of the other comments.

You also somehow have taken my comment out of context, I wrote one post responding to the initial comment about it leading with it sounds implausible in practice. I've now written 5 posts in this thread (3 to you) about actually having a discussion instead of just trying to silence those that disagree (something that was brought up in the initial post).

My initial response was agreeing with Brian's original post, and suggesting to go even further on the restriction. Brian have often seen eye-to-eye in high level B&R talks. If we want to get into specifics, ummm, there is nothing to discuss other than I'd restrict more... as I initially. I agree with all the particular cards he noted.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@chubbyrain

You are creating a reductionism of his initial post by saying it is only about his recommendations as most of Brian's post is about how to think about the B&R list differently than his specific recommendations. If people have a differing view on how to think about the list they are not allowed to say so?

posted in Vintage Community read more

@chubbyrain

Brian's suggestion, Vintage PURGE edition, Vintage Highlander, and others I think all fall under the title of the thread: "An Alternate Take on B&R"

Most takes seem to revolve around restriction or unrestricting 1 or 2 cards. Wizards has gone this route basically since the split from Legacy, but the reality is that the format probably needs much more dramatic restrictions or unrestrictions to have any real effect on most of the "pillars" of the format that have been leading the way for the last decade +.

posted in Vintage Community read more

I do like the idea of the "reset" in theory, but how do you practically complete the list in a timely enough manner to not upset the entire format with a restriction every few months?

I'd also even take more cards off of your list @evouga
Mind's Desire is not clearly better than other storm spells in a world of 4-Trini, 4-Lodestone Shops.
Tinker. I think this card is actually worse than Mentor.
Yawgmoth's Will. This is mostly a mid to late game spell in a format that would be dictated by turn 1 plays.
Demonic Tutor. Almost everything is unrestricted so there isn't much to fetch.
Strip Mine. This is Wasteland in like 90% of times, and wasteland is no where near the list.

Just leave the list at Balance, draw 7s, time walk, ancestral, fast artifact mana. I.e. Stick to is the question of: Is this card too broken if someone wins the die roll?

posted in Vintage Community read more

@mediumsteve

Instead we should brush off all criticism of the format with a generic:

"If you don't like it, go play another format."

posted in Vintage Community read more

@mediumsteve

In my opinion, this is a terrible mentality that holds Vintage back from growing as a format. We are all well aware that some of these cards are absolutely broken, yet there is always a huge backlash from conservatives about restricting cards.

Take for example, Walking Ballista, this card was a clear and clearly big upgrade over a card that was already seeing 4-of play in a major archetype, Triskelion. There is really no reason we should have had to sit around for years waiting for this card to get hit with a restriction (and its still unrestricted).

Or another example, Mental Misstep, this card was banned in every other format over 5 years ago now and has been a consistent 4-of in half of the decklists for that time period now.

Why is this format so slow to respond?

posted in Vintage Community read more

@evouga

Turn 0 or 1 Force is a broken play, and Force has been shown to support broken strategies like Dredge and Outcome Storm.