@nedleeds (Sean I assume), I'm cross posting this because I'm not sure which platform (FB, EC, TMD) you are the most responsive.
There is a key point which I'm not sure you tackle properly in this article. To my mind, the increase in the average number of Missteps was directly related to the restriction of Chalice of the Void in September 2015.
Blue decks simply got greedier, much lower on the curve and then everybody got stuck playing 4 MM as a consequence of Chalice's restriction.
Before Chalice's restriction, people were much more conscious about spreading their CMC across the curve. Moreover, cards like Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and Hurkyl's were no brainer main deck back then as it was the best answer to un-restricted Chalice (and versatile/good against the rest of the field).
In a field full of Chalices, MM made absolutely no sense. That's the key point.
Last, in a field without Chalice, I think people felt safe knowing that they could rely on 4MM if needed to keep in check the Ritual decks. I think that when Dark Petition + Cabal Therapy + Probe decks started popping out. Then Xerox really took over the format but by then 4MM was already everywhere. It all started when Chalice got restricted.
@titus I think this is the best point so far. I like very much the design in that regard: It doesn't trigger for PW's abilities but in exchange it kills them.
Other than that, I hate that they imprinted such ability on another bear (how about Enchantments) and freaking human. How about Goblins or other tribes that make you dream as a kid. Humans are so lame & unmagical
I do not agree that Griselbrand is way easier to cheat into play than Bargain. Bargain care not about Priest, Karakas, Cage, Metamorph & STP so these are the key differences with Griseldaddy. It is also much more flexible as you dont rely on having 8+ life to go off vs aggro meta and it is more castable.
Obviously Show & Tell gains a lot of value from Bargain's unrestriction and I think people will first try to jam it in an Oath Shell along with castable Academy Rector, Flash and maybe a 1off Emrakul glued together by 4 Cabal therapy.
That brew might end up being clunky but I think it is less of a glass canon than trying to push Bargain via a Ritual shell. Im pretty sure Ritual-Bargain (combined with Duress effects) is the reason why Misstep was left untouched for now.
Shop could jam in some Pithing needle MD to replace Thorn (fetch denial, VKey, Bargain, Bazaar) though the new Spyglass is an absolute hot contender as, again, it plays around Misstep while earning invaluable info for Prison/Aggro tempo decks!
PO in the end seems to be the real winner though I like the tension between possibly having 2 combo decks relying on 2 different engines: Rituals or Artifacts. They'll have to account for each other so, in the end, it might not be as straight forward but, PO supports FOW & Hurkyl's better so... yeah overall I think PO clearly wins.
Rodrigo Togores suggested to me to try Collective Brutality.
Ive been playing 2 for about 6 weeks now and I like it. I rarely side them out (only generally against Oath & Dredge).
I think the card is very legit:
- Doesnt get misstepped
- Answers Revoker, Thalia, Notion Thief...
- Life gained can be converted into cards drawn
- Helps getting Threshold & Spell Mastery
- Discards Opp & deals damages obviously
I only 5-0ed a couple a times with the deck (byron1) but always breaks even (3-2 mini). Latest list has:
- no LED, no Chrome, no Jar, no Mind's Desire
- 13 lands (2 basics), no Library
- Tinker/bot in main
- Red for Wheel of Fortune & Empty the Warren in side
Main thing Ive been trying to work out is whether I like Preodain or not. Running 2 at the moment. Does the deck need Sensei instead?
The deck is very fun but still not sure its 100% there.
I'm pretty sure you are missing Ancestral Recall from Bertrand's list. Source: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/zak-dolans-worlds-diary-2004-08-26
Also I'm not very clear where this guy get this from but he reckons Bertrand replaced Chaos Orb for Sylvan Library in the finale against Zak. Source: http://fabiensanglard.net/mtg_93-94_Toronto/event1.php
Your source (Bertrand?) seems to recall that Bertrand opted for a 61-card deck in case he ripped up the Orb. That seems fair enough strategy and very flavourful. But again, as it was the very last match of the tournament against a turtle control deck, maybe Bertrand decided to trim down to 60-cards deck (not sure if the rules allowed this back then but I wouldn't be surprised if it allowed you to make adjustments out as long as you maintained 60 mini + your original sideboard. No new card back in obviously)
I remember fondly looking at Bertrand's decklist in a French magazine called Casus Belli in 95-96ish (I remember it was in a column on the right page). I really wish I could put my hand on it again. I was in my bed trying hard to figure out what the hell Channel was doing. Then I understood the combo! I fear there wasn't any of the other decklists published in that magazine.
I figured that Tinker can get the Grid if needed or a timely Lotus, ManaVault... and can help Threshold in some scenarios (that's also why I absolutely love Chain of Vapour in that deck). Also, having that 2nd & easy WinCon MD really gives me a few easy out G1 against certain matchups
I hear you Titus but, in my opinion, it is very important that Zak's deck won. I reckon it may even have helped MtG to be where it is today. It showed that the game had real depth, that it was intricate, with crazy interactions, combos, interesting lines of play & solutions. Zak's deck is hard to grasp, I can imagine all the noobs trying to figure out how the pile worked back then & failing miserably to win with it. All in all, I believe that Zak winning helped nursing the mystery around MtG and its infinite possibilities.
If only the Zoo & Aggro decks had top4, I don't think the game would still be there today. Players may have been comforted that these "low variance & direct deck" were the absolute best decks and Control/Combo may have died silently killing MtG in the mid-term. Though, from a deck building point of view, I agree Bertrand's deck is near absolute perfection (Strip Mine...).
I'm no Champ but can really relate to Jo Bogaard and yet I was not really impressed by many of his bad plays.
I played Magic for 20+ years and yet I'm absolutely pathetic when I play competitive REL once a year. On the live steam, honestly I'm all over it: missed triggers, mana crypt, cards drawn, land played, life total... and I really feel insulted when I see miss-triggers, etc... In real life I'm such a noob it's frustrating as hell. I don't think I'm being emotional about potentially winning a 40 players tourney but I feel like there is so much happening all at once, decisions, triggers, upcoming problems, sideboarding, etc....people watching, judges asking you to play quicker...... that it all get to much in front of me. I just don't see clearly, mess up, often call the judge on myself and generally get my 2 warnings/event.
Clearly, I would much prefer a flawless Champ, full of awesome plays & tech but here, I'm really not sure I'm ready to call him a cheater. After reading all the posts here, I have full trust in the HJ decisions & actions at the time when things were hot. In the end, the dude T1 wastelanded Brennan and Brennan didn't draw mana for like 10 turns after that. Not pretty, salty, lucky, ok. In that long game in the finale (G2?), Boggart nearly lost at least 3 times because of his own poor plays, it was not pretty, etc... and he somehow won in the end so too bad for his opponent. Against Montolio, he forgot to draw a card after removing TKS. That's Andy's trigger, right so why does anybody calls Montolio a cheater here? I remember Jo not wastelanding sometimes which seemed horrible decisions...However, the main thing I remember were some decisions taken by Montolio which I wasn't fully agreeing with at all (I should rewatch the games, but I remember some spheres getting sacked and I though it was very odd/wrong plays, I remember Bob questioning whether Triskelion should have been cast first with Lotus instead of Hangarback on 3 and I totally agreed with Bob here...). I mean the guy clearly got lucky, it was his day. It is a bit sad but I bet all of you (whether you noticed or not) messed up at one stage during that EW.
I have my doubts about the allegations but if anything I agree that it wasn't the flashiest Champ which leaves me with a very bitter taste although I wasn't even near from participating to the event. People were joking about the BOM tourney: the poor plays & misplays, and jokingly said that's why we can't consider it World Championship. To be honest, the US EW Vintage I saw on the stream was very similar standard & average quality.
It hurts Baby Jace looting as well.
I think the key to the format might be finding a reliable life gain engine or Lifelink critter with evasion. Saying that many infinite life engines requires infinite activations (Zuran Orb or Cleric comboes...). Felidar Sovereign, Dromoka, Wurmcoil, Sphinx it is then...
I finished 9th (out of 42) this Saturday at our annual Sanctioned Eternal Masters Week-End in Australia with a PO Bomberman list:
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Trinket Mage
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Paradoxical Outcome
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dig Through Time
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Dack Fayden
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
4 Flooded Strand
1 Volcanic Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alex
1 Strip Mine
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Mystic Remora
2 Containment Priest
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
Round 1 - JacoDrazi: Win 2-1. Early Mentor game 2 got me there. Game 3, STP 2 early Smashers won the game because, after that, I simply drew more than them.
Round 2 - Grixis Control (with 3 Sudden Shock + 3 Bolt + Snappies + Bob): Win 2-0. Game 1, I Stripped Mine is Turn1 Library!. Game 2, he mulled to 4
Round 3 - White Eldrazi: Loss 0-2. I Mindbreak Trapped the first threat T1. Then I got steamrolled. Game 2, I kept a "good hand", but Null Rod ruined it. Wasn't close.
Round 4 - UWb Mentor: Win 2-0. This one was on stream here so I won't spoil it. It was rather entertaining from my point of view!
Round 5 - Ballista MUD (with Tangle Wire): Loss 0-2. Game 2, I kept ok hand with Sideboard cards. I was always 1 Mana short. My opponent Andrew Canessa finished 1st in the Swiss but lost in the Top8 Gd Finale against an Unpowered UR Deck!
Round 6 - PO combo with 1 Mentor: Win 2-0. Game 2, I had Remora up to 8 cumulative upkeeps and an early Trinket Mage beating my opponent down to 4 life. So he eventually tried to go off, and my very last draw of the Remora was a FOW for his Yawg's Will (which I initially mindbreaked trapped but got flustered...). It would have played very differently if he had dropped a Defense Grid at some stage in that game. It was a very interesting match.
So obviously, I was very pleased with the deck VS the blue match-ups. But clearly, I must do some more work against the Aggro + Sphere decks:
- Maybe remove Opal and put 16th Land
- Maybe cut 1 Salvager for 4th Mentor (but I really don't want to be known as one of those guys never running less than 4 Mentors)
- Maybe find room for 3rd Sword MD. That would leave some space for a least 1 Fragmentize in SB
- Maybe remove Skullclamp which is mostly for the Blue match-ups and probably too cute against aggro (Note: I wanted to stay at 14 Artifacts minimum MD to fuel Thirst, PO, Tolarian).
- Maybe play a Meekstone as a Trinket Mage's silver bullet. It's an artifact so possibly a half-decent permanent answer against some Spheres & Wires and it fuels Thirst, PO, Tolarian.
- Maybe replace Pyrite Spellbomb with Aether Spellbomb as it can deal with Smashers, Oath dudes & TinkerBot that seems to regain popularity recently and accessorily bounce my own dudes to rescue them or simply for some extra value (Trinket Mage!). Pyrite provides another answer in case of Moat & Planewalkers but thinking about it further, I will definitely swap for Aether Spellbomb next time. Smasher is the worst.
All in all, the deck was thrown together the night before so doing some real testing & tuning against the Aggro + Sphere match-ups is probably half the secret. It was a tonne of fun regardless and 2 x PO + 2 x Remora (in side) played very well. I think it is the correct recipe and "2 PO only" might become more of a thing in Control decks.
hehe, great minds think alike they say! I brewed the deck on Friday 9th 11pm Australia time ready for my 7am flight. It seems that you created this thread on 10th June 4:09am! Looking back through my Internet history, it seems that I was mostly looking at these 2 lists for some inspiration:
With this in mind, the week leading to our Eternal WE, I was brewing many janky brews running things like: 4 PO + 4 Trinket Mage + 4 Drain + 4 Devastation Tides... VClique, Snappies, Remoras, Ballistas, Hangarback...
Ballista was definitely tested in most of my brews. I only played a few tiny sample size games against my mate and it was not working greatly for me. Too often Ballista felt no good on its own. Sure, Mana Drain + Ballista play felt great but most of the time, the card was stuck in my hand and I was never fetching it with Trinket Mage: Lotus, Sensei or Sapphire were always the first targets.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like Ballista serve the same role than Pyrite Spellbomb but with some extra flexibility as Mana Drain sink which seems fantastic. I still favoured Spellbomb instead as I wanted to be able to get rid of an early Mentor. Remember, on the night, I was only able to find space for 2 Swords so I think this really pushed me toward Spellbomb instead of Ballista.
Sure Spellbomb can also draw your whole deck as well and Ballista doesn't but you can do the same with Sensei + EE anyways (or just PO). So I don't think this was really a consideration. Killing an early Mentor was the main reason.
Clearly, I think that the 2nd Auriok can easily be the 4th Mentor. I'm struggling against aggro and let's be honest, Salvager is often one of the first card (or two) to get sided out. I'm counting on my opponent to side in Stony Silence & Rod effects so I'm generally thinning down on the combo pieces. Last, against the PO decks or Aggro/Sphere, Bomberman combo feels way too slow.
I can remember 2 games where I won out of nowhere with Bomberman combo. One was on stream here: my opp had an early Mentor + Tokens on the board. The 2nd time was game1 against PO deck. I was dead on board and I Dug Through Time into my combo! So the combo is there, I feel it is as important as Esper Mentor running Tendrils of Agony + Yawg's Will. It gives you some easy games, you need some amount of plan B. I believe some call it "Oops I win", it is very important in Vintage.
I think you are bang on about Pithing Needle. I simply love the card myself and always run one in Vintage. (I'm infamous for simply naming random fetch T1!).
Skullclamp shoud go, we all agree. I just don't get to play often Vintage so when I do, I make sure I play cool cards & random techs.
About the 3 Trinket Mages, again I brewed some stuff with 4, then 3, then 2. 2 ran very ok for me on the day. I think it was competing too much with the Mentors curve and I just thought 3 Mentors would be more relevant more often.
I'm really not sure 4 POs is correct in that deck and meta. Thirst was so smooth that I rediscovered a new love playing it again last week-end. PO was great each time I drew it (again see stream here), so I could probably see myself pushing up to 3Thirst + 3POs but then I have to cut something and note that I'm already not running Brainstorm, Ponder or Cruise... Saying that, I think 2nd Dack would be my first preference over the 3rd PO.
Flusterstorm, I had so many good experiences across a wide variety of match-ups with Trap that I really wanted to swing 2 in that deck. I wanted to limit my dead cards against MUD & Eldrazi without compromising PO so Trap had to stay (over Flusterstorm). It could be a one-off no doubt but if I do, I think I would first put another Sword instead of a one-off Fluster. After side, thanks to the 2 Remora, I think that it was completely justified to jam in a lone Fluster in my SB.
Regarding By Force or Grudge, I lost Game2 against Ballista MUD with an opening hand Hurkyl's that I was never able to cast. That's why at the moment, I believe that 1 more STP needs to be moved into the main and probably replaced with 1 Fragmentize (or 2) in the SB.
The real problem in fact is Eldrazi. By Force or Grudge (or Fragmentize) are excellent (I'll just have to boost my red mana, currently only 1 Volcanic) BUT the key problem is that they don't solve Eldrazi at all. You want something that deals with both, I think that Snuff Out, Dismember, Swords are where you want to be until a Mentor can chump for the rest of the day.
Metagame Breakdown (sanctionned)
5 Oath of Druids (2 Inferno, 1 Muldrotha, 1 Demon Oath, 1 Punishing)
4 Delver (3 UR, 1 RUG)
3 Unpowered Eldrazi (2 colourless, 1 white)
2 Grixis Control
2 Paradoixal Mentor
1 4C Control
1 4C Hatebears
1 Channel Mirror
1 Modern Mill feat force of will
1 Mono R Prison
1 Mono U Control
1 The Wheel (Esper Control)