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posted in Dredge read more

Yeah, so why not give yourself the extra card for the price of a few percentage points if you feel it necessary or desirable?

posted in Dredge read more

Sorry if I am necroing this thread.

Would anyone consider having a 61st card in their list?

These are geometric distribution percentages for a 60 cards list:
39.94996257 - Bazaar in Opener
65.3593571 - Bazaar or Powder in Opener
80.93533073 - Dredger in Opener
88.65527663 - Dredger in Opener or off EoT Bazaar

vs the numbers for having a 61 card list:
39.39868354 - Bazaar in Opener
64.66802567 - Bazaar or Powder in Opener
80.31025961 - Dredger in Opener
88.15313314 - Dredger in Opener or off EoT Bazaar

The 61st card for fitting something in when you run out of slots in the sideboard.

posted in Rules QnA read more

Hi folks, so it seems we have a few questions about the interactions of Oath of Nissa and Mishra's Workshop.

So first off let us start with this with this rule:

106.6. Some spells or abilities that produce mana restrict how that mana can be spent, have an additional effect that affects the spell or ability that mana is spent on, or create a delayed triggered ability (see rule 603.7a) that triggers when that mana is spent. This doesn't affect the mana's type.

The mana that we get from Mishra's Workshop falls under this particular rule. This rule simply acknowledges that some mana has restrictions placed on it; however, the type of mana we get from the Workshop is {C} as we would expect.
Now once we generate that mana and we decide to pay some associated cost of a spell or ability we are attempting to cast or activate we have this rule here:

117.3. A player can't pay a cost unless he or she has the necessary resources to pay it fully. For example, a player with only 1 life can't pay a cost of 2 life, and a permanent that's already tapped can't be tapped to pay a cost. See rule 202, "Mana Cost and Color," and rule 602, "Activating Activated Abilities."

This rule essentially says we are not allowed to pay costs for a spell or ability, unless we have everything we need to do so. Importantly this includes the appropriate mana both in amount and in type.
Now you may be wondering, but Oath of Nissa says the following:

You may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast planeswalker spells.

and the Workshop (for reference) says:

{T}: Add {C}{C}{C} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells.

This is just great! I have some mana in my mana pool from my Misrha's Workshop, that I cannot use unless I use it to cast an artifact (thanks to the Workshops restriction), and that I may use as if it were any colour to cast Planeswalkers! So the question here is which one of these wins!?!

Logically if we work this out we have mana that may be used to cast Planeswalker spells as though it were any colour, but also can only be used to cast Artifact spells. So with the mana from my workshop I can use it to cast any Artifact spell I so desire, as normal without an Oath involved. In addition I may also spend that mana to cast Planeswalker spells using the mana of an appropriate colour type, that are also of type Artifact. I must fulfill the requirements on using the mana or I am not allowed to use it, as per the 117.3 listed above. I have to have all the appropriate mana and in this case I do not since I cannot fulfil the restriction on the mana generated from the Workshop. So if WotC ever gets around to printing another version of Karn, or some yet unknown Planeswalker, that requires coloured mana and is also an Artifact, then this particular interaction might be useful; otherwise, might I suggest some other plans for your Oaths.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@stsung Feel free to submit your feedback at any time. The form is a Google form and should not really have downtime (in addition you can request to remain anonymous). I would submit the appropriate feedback to the appropriate parties however, if you have an issue with a TO then you can reach out to WotC about that. They have forms and contact numbers for doing so that are available. For judges please use the form I mentioned previously, if there is a problem then the Judge Conduct Committee is equipped to address those concerns. Judges should be adhering to the Judge Code of Conduct when acting in or around that role. In addition you can reach out to your regional coordinator and speak to them about either of these issues, they have channels they can use to alert any necessary party so that negative issues can be addressed. As I do not know what country you are in I cannot say who your regional coordinator is; however, this link has a list of all current regional coordinators so please feel free to use it to find that person if you feel the need to reach out to them.

Judge Feedbak Form:

Judge Code of Conduct:

Regional Coordinator List:

There is also a form on the regional coordinator list that can assist you in reaching out to your regional coordinator.

@stsung said:

Do you really think that there are people who would be willing to sue WotC if they decide to reevaluate their position on the reserved list?

Yes, I certainly do believe that. Even if they make moves to cover such a possibility people will still try.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@MaximumCDawg said:

My initial point was just that this lawsuit serves as a reminder that WotC lives in the Real World, where people CAN DO file lawsuits if they think they have grounds to do so. For me, it serves to dispel the idea that WotC can do what it wants and people will just grumble and go along with it.

Totally agreeing with you here, People hardly need a reason to sue someone if they think they can get something from it.
To my understanding you are correct, the cases are contingency fee based and if they lose then there will be financial impact to WotC because of these cases. That is if it goes to trial and if they lose, there is of course always the possibility of settlement and who knows what those terms could be (or if anyone will be able to tell you about them, which I doubt they will).

posted in Vintage Community read more


Judges and players have the possibility to evaluate judges and based on what judges do for the community they receive judge promos. It is not guaranteed that you as a judge will receive any. It depends on the judge community in a country. (the promos are received by one judge and send out to the rest of judges)

These statements are not accurate, players do not have the ability to evaluate judges as far as the judge Exemplar Program is concerned. Recognitions can only be given by L2+ judges to other judges for judge related purposes. There are many publicly available articles for reference on the topic, Bryan Prilliman, the current exemplar program lead posts a regular blog on the program and its progress on the judge blogs site.
There is a feedback form for players to use if they have any particular feedback for judges (both negative and positive feedback are welcome). You can find additional information about that form here:
as well as a link to the form itself. Feel free to use the form and provide feedback for judges! Hopefully they have made your day(s) at a Magic event a better experience!

As far as your understanding goes there are many fine points that the judges involved are trying to make, many of them internal to the judge program itself. While I am not necessarily advocating their methodology, their concerns are real, and effect many judges. I do not know if the actions of these judges relates in any way to the reserve list. In fact I doubt there is any correlation over the fact that judges are currently suing WotC for various concerns and whether or not people will sue WotC if they decide to reevaluate their position on the reserved list. Now I am not saying that people will not do that, but just that there seems little evidence of a correlation between the cause and effects of the existing suits and those proposed hypothetical suits over the reserved list.

posted in Vintage Community read more

To correct a misconception here, judge foils still exist. Their distribution method is what has changed. There are no guaranteed ways to obtain them any longer as they are no longer part of the package that is received at GPs. This was the change to which I previously made reference. This change was made by WotC due in part to another suit that was brought up against WotC for pretty much the same thing. In addition WotC has recently changed how product is handled for GPs and this has also caused a reduction in the amount of product that judges receive as part of that package.

Another thing that people continually mention here is that judges are expecting more "pay" from the suit and that judges are "volunteers". As far as the first item goes, that is not necessarily the endgame as far as I understand it. @evouga actually has the right of it here, they want to make a separate organization for judges. This organization will be able to assist judges with various administrative items, such as taxation, labour issues (those judges who come from countries outside of the GPs location), as well as benefits (including when judges get hurt while judging). The unilateral bannings of the judges in the Southeast US region and their mishandling was certainly a partial catalyst for the suit I am most familiar with. I will not speak to more about those bannings there is plenty of information already available on that topic.
To the second point, judges as "volunteers", while it is true that perspectively we volunteer to work these events. Going into it we are hired for the event, there is an expectation of give and take in the relationship. Look at a posting for staffing a GP, you will find sections on expectations and compensation. I have been on all sides of this equation having had to hire such staffs as well as being hired (many times). I realize what the expenses are for a TO when putting together one of these events, they are many and personnel makes up a large portion of them. From a player experience there are many subtle things that can improve your experience, things that you would never/do not notice, but they are there and make for a better day for you (which is great and I am certainly not arguing against those things especially as they almost always make my day easier). Yes, these things do come at a cost and a TO has to manage which items they will employ and which they will not for a given event. Anyway I have gone off on a tangent here, the point is perceptually we are volunteers, but we are in fact not. Beyond that legally we cannot be volunteers as all of the companies involved here are for profit, as far as my non-lawyer understanding is of the laws involved.

While it is true that exact level of service may not improve, there are tangible benefits that these suits are seeking. Most of them take place on the administrative level which do not affect players directly. However, we have something that we tell other judges all of the time when working long hours at events, and that is, "take care of yourself, as that allows you to best take care of the event". If we are on top of our game because we are aware then we can make your play experience that much better, but if we are not then it can easily have the opposite effect. It is my opinion that what these judges seek is simply to take care of their own, which lets us better take better care of TOs events, and ultimately you the players.

Sorry again for the diatribe style post.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@joshuabrooks said:

Since this is a hobby, couldn't judging be seen as a way of "participating" in the game or hobby. Almost likened to a third participant in a match. I know that thought it pretty out there, but I doubt any judge is doing it for anything other than personal enjoyment, some perks or prestige. At least at lower levels.

There are actually judges whose main job is judging. In addition there are plenty of store level employees that are employed because they are judges.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@MaximumCDawg said:

@ajfirecracker Sure they are, but the judges didn't start judging because they responded to a help wanted ad. They enjoyed the game so they started pitching in encourage its growth. The formalization and rules grew over time.

At least, I think so. Does our resident judge want to explain further?

This is pretty accurate as far as how judging got started. There is not much more to explain than what you have stated already. Though that does not necessarily mean that whatever laws these suits are trying to apply do not apply to our situation. Beyond that I am not a lawyer so I would have little to no idea on what or how things apply.