@wagner said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

@protoaddict Imagine this with Thought Scour, it fuels itself and you get to draw and dig for Phoenix for very cheap.

In the other formats people are looking at its interactions with Rituals which is also quite scary. Not so much with Cabal ritual, very much so with rite of flames.

I know WOTC does not care about vintage and does not plan card designs around the format, but they have to know that is going to be restricted already right?

I can already see this getting banned in modern as well because Phoenix builds can abuse the hell out of it, and it may be better than past in flames in some decks in that format.

I love how in basically every other format this is worse than Augur of Bolas.

My presumption is that you are likely playing this besides thalia and other taxing effects, so pay 3 for wrenn may not be as easy as all that.

@boogdish feels apples and oranges to me. This affects all walkers, not just 1 card, and there have been a lot of superfriends decks as of late. First strike, spirit subtype, needs colored mana, etc. The cards are a great deal apart honestly.

In what way is it irrelevant if it forced your opponent to do something later than they needed to while also being a 2/1 first striker?

It also taxes every turn and ever walker, so unless you elk it with oko it just keeps doing what it does.

We got there everyone. Seems like it's going to be more of a player in modern and pioneer, but it will often prevent an oko or teferi or narset activation the turn they come down.

The only Delve spells I can think of you playing in this format are DDT and TC right? No one is running anglers out in vintage unless I missed a meeting.

Knowing that, I think it's perfectly reasonable to cut the 2 delve spells for 2 of these, since these can more than make up for the missing cards you would draw off them. I think I would rather have this and a demonic tutor in the yard to get the card I want than trying to get them with DDT, and would far rather be able to cast Ancestral 2+ times.

The stuff that gets hurt the most with this I think includes snapcaster, because you want your fuel in the yard, and Dredge, because if this becomes prominent then grave hate will become standard fair, maybe in the main deck.

Misstepable, but probably a strict upgrade for most decks that want this effect. Im guessing this becomes the second most wanted dredge hate card next to leyline.

I think forge is apt only because virtually any workshops deck can run it with no deck building consession other than picking its slot and occasionally just winning off the top deck.

I would say the same for this card. Almost any deck that can support it mana wise can include it and it becomes at the worst a regrowth, and at the best a card that lets you timewalk a whole bunch or refill off ancestrals. Thats without crafting a list around it.