Baral 2cc Combo with manamorphose, gifts and regrowth. The deck is called "Almost good".
Grixis Thieves: It's really important to play timetwister. Pulling the Mind Twist + Draw 14 wins not just the game, but the match in most circumstances because the opponent starts g2/3 with a tilt token in play. Also, I have wanted daretti II to be good since it was printed.
(in short: play night's whisper. card is good.)
@Dumpsterac1d thank you very much.
gush was one of my favourite cards to play. I didn't stop playing vintage because of the gush restriction though. I stopped playing because mentor made playing gush so boring, removed skill and just plopped out huge tokens all the time while playing magic.
Even the turbo-xerox-engine in itself is fine. With chalice as a 4-of, it would be even less of a problem.
Hello, nice that you start a thread about painter, my pet deck. here is a link to an old primer I wrote on the old mana drain.
It's true that the deck ran 2 gush and 3-4 thirst back sometimes. But since then, little jace has arrived, so that 2 little jace somehow fill the role of two thirsts. I'd agree though, that at least some number of gushes are strongly advised in this deck, for the following rasons:
- synergy with dack fayden.
- synergy with painter + force: pitch a land.
- synertgy with jace, vryn's prodigy.
JACO's comments are all very helpful, but I would strongly disagree with regards to the pyroblast discussion: keep Pyro + REB splitted. The number of times you lose because your opponent names «pyroblast» with cabal therapy exceeds the number of games you lose because you could ultimate dack but have REB in hand. And just as a side note, if you name blue with painter, you cannot use dack's ultimate with blasts anymore at all obviously.
Also, 3 underground sea are too many. I never want to draw these duals, I want to fetch them. play 7 fetches, 7 lands. That is totally solid. You can even play 6 fetches and a strip mine for these eldrazi double lands and caverns. Strip mine is very good as is library (esp with two gushes), depending on the expected metagame.
For the sideboard, I strongly advise you to play toxic deluge instead of virulent plague. Deluge takes out every creature in the format. At once. that frees you the spot of murderous cut (you already run two daretti main).
If you want to go a bit more greedy and improve the blue matchup, I’d advise the following sideboard:
2 mystic remora
1 mindbreak trap
1 shattering spree
2 ingot chewer
3 grafdigger’s cage
2 Nihil spellbomb
1 pithing needle
1 toxic deluge
The remora / fluster / trap package is more than solid against non-creature decks.
Against MUD, as you already run 4 maindeck anti-artifact cards, you can board out the missteps and 2 REBs, run the red package from the board plus needle and deluge. with the solid manabase you run, it should not be too difficult to get one out. It’s a bit low though.
Here is my list for comparison:
*61 cards. JACO is right, the space is too tight in Grixis. Consider either library or strip mine to be it. cut one if you need to reduce it to 60.
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Painter's Servant
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Force of Will
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Mental Misstep
1 Fire // Ice / flex answer slot. (pyroclasm is good.)
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Dig Through Time
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Notion Thief / snapcaster mage / second jace boy
2 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor / second daretti
1 Time Walk
SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Mystic Remora
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
My list is a bit greedy, you can put some more creature and mud hate in for sure, but it does weaken your blue matchup. Maybe just 1 remora to randomly lucksack a win. Or just run gush main as a singleton.
Already now it's becoming difficult to navigate and find topics. I understand that the breaking up into pillars in the old TMD deck strategy was probably too split-up, but we need some categorization, and deck discussion and other strategic discussion should really be divided in my opinion.
The deck looks nice and reminds me of all the turbotezz / city vault decks. As far as engines / disruption / mana etc. goes, I suggest you have a look at the following decks (which I'm sure you have seen some already) to develop it further. Giving you feedback on individual card choices would be hasty on my part though, as I have not tested the deck at all yet and haven't even examined it thoroughly. Keep up the enthusiasm though, I'll get back with more serious insight when I have looked into it.
but also, even though it is somehow another deck (but also operates on resolving a 4cc spell)
Antoni Sanchez' ever dominating "Supremacy" gifts deck
One card that comes to mind is transmute artifact though. Have you tested it? Sounds like a neat tutor for your deck, aside from the UU cost.
The thing is, in painter, gush is a good card, but this is no gush deck. 4x gush without cantrips means you're drawing was too much mana. Thirst and gush are very synergistic together and fill some different roles. As for Treasure cruise, exactly what @spook said. I mean' you can run it and only play 1 gush if you prefer. I wouldn't though. it's often clunky. like yawgmoth's will.
@neo_altoid But that's not really argument for gush's restriction. Only because most blue decks run the same draw spells doesn't mean this draw spell needs to be restricted. For example, you could make the same argument about preordain. How many true non-preordain decks were there? this is the old "diversity in draw engines" argument that has been made over and over again. Put it to rest. Different Gush decks play very differently. Even Grixis pyromancer and mentor (two TX token strategies) play(ed) differently.
So, after the restriction, we can see that gush is not necessary for the TurboXerox engine to dominate. Even restricting every 1-mana cantrip wouldn't hurt it. I'd say the problem is that there is a finisher that is easier to cast than tinker (no artifact in play needed), requires less investment (sacrificing an artifact, running a dead card), is harder to deal with, and kills about as quickly. The only requirement said finisher has is "play lots of spells, doesn't matter what the effect says on the card."
On the other hand, some decks conceptually rely on 4 gush to work, such as doomsday for example, or any form of gushbond decks (which have been outclassed a long time ago). Not only have these decks been killed by the restriction of gush, the very POSSIBILITY of "innovating" with gush has been removed! that's what wappla means by removing bricks I think.
(Grixis pyromancer has been killed by the printing of walking ballista though, and then killed again by the restriction of probe; DPS also has been killed by restricting probe). The problem with probe is the same: the spell is only problematic when it summons a seeker of the way.
Long story short:
restrict mentor. unrestrict gush OR fastbond. unrestrict probe. unrestrict memory jar. unrestrict yawgmoth's bargain.
see what happens. if the main problem in the metagame continues to exist (I think it has been well defined that at the moment there is a two deck metagame with MUD and TX: mentor), try more things: One possibility:
restrict misstep and sphere. unrestrict chalice of the void.
Restricting misstep would make real 1cc-counters better, like REB (opening up the possibility of painters), spell pierce + snare, as well as making hand disruption, rituals and 1cc-creatures better.
Restriction of sphere is not a very obvious one, but I think it has some merits, because sphere is unconditional (removes deckbuilding options to play around it) and is only usable for workshop decks. While creature decks don't have problems with thorn, they do with sphere.
Chalice on the other hand is a card that can be used in or even enables a variety of decks (MUD, Blue moon, some baral-2cc-mono-U-control, could make eldrazi and other critter decks stronger, a white deck with chalice and chalice man, etc.) and is very effective against the cantrip menace, (unlike misstep, which forces blue decks to run their own missteps to counter the opponents missteps that countered the misstep which add more dead draws against MUD). Also, chalice is nullified by cavern of souls. It would also give all the decks an option against PO decks, while being relatively easy to answer for these decks set on any number via engineered explosives (with the help of strip/library/sol ring/mana vault/monolith mana). I'd only unrestrict chalice if at the same time restricting sphere though!
Also: the workshop: Magic players tend to forget that mishra's workshop has a weakness: All permanents in a workshop deck have the artifact type. one hurkyl's (or anything else) to rule them all. Eldrazi are already harder to answer, because their card types vary (but is worse as a deck). And at the same time, the taxing deck is important to have in vintage, to prevent t1 glass cannons and TX strategies from totally dominating. The goal should be how to make shop decks a little worse against Non-greedy TX/combo decks.
All in all, I'd look for restrictions and unrestrictions which open up possibilities of deckbuilding and foster variety, without destroying archetypes like workshop or gush decks.