@thewhitedragon69 Leyline of Sanctity might be great, since it does stop T1 kill. But it doesn't do much after T1 if you're only sideboarding it to deal with PO; if I were playing PO against White Eldrazi, or some enchantment/non-artifact based taxing deck, I wouldn't want to take the storm finish route anyway. Also, Leyline type cards usually require that you have 4 of them in the sideboard, but there are probably much more consistently effective cards that could replace them.

T1 kills are annoying, but how often does PO get to execute them? Probably much more than most other decks in the meta right now, but still not enough to use up 4 sideboard slots for a card that is dead if you draw into it, or doesn't do much after the first turn (assuming you're mainly using it to deal with PO). It's uncommon that you face 2 or 3 T1 kills in a row. So it's more likely that you win the match even after a T1 kill in a game if you have consistent hate cards, rather than ones that just slow down the first turn.

Mental Misstep could be good, since it doesn't require blue commitment to be used. It stops SDT, cantrips, Ancestral Recall, etc. FoW is probably not a good idea unless you plan to use many blue cards. Mindbreak Trap is just bad. You would probably surprise your opponent the first time you use it, but after that, they will just play around it. It doesn't stop Tinker, and would more often feed Mentor than hinder your opponent. If you run all 3 counterspells, Mindbreak Trap could be good. But then, you would want to run 3-4 of each card, which would dilute your game plan too much. Plus, at that point, why not just play a full-on UW deck, with Ancestral, Time Walk, etc?

I mostly play UB, and the hardest things to play around when facing White is early game Cavern of Souls with Thalia 1.0/Glowrider, 2.0, and a well-timed TKS. If you set them back a turn or two behind their normal pace, and you keep pumping out those creatures along with other hate pieces, they usually aren't capable of winning through them. Considering how dependent PO decks are to artifacts, if you cast Stony Silence and the like, backed by taxing effects so that it can't be countered easily, you would most often have the game in control.

@thewhitedragon69 I thought you were talking about those cards in relation to PO. I agree with you that there are many ways to deal with PO. As much as I like watching VSL every now and then, many decks featured there are not ideal for dealing with various decks that you will come across in a less limited setting than VSL.

PO is not as difficult to deal with as some people here make it seem. Traditional artifact based blue hate like Thorns and Sphere isn't going to do much, but it is often weak to creature and enchantment based hate. PO decks usually run maybe 1-2 Repeal, 1-2 Fragmentize, and a single Engineered Explosives. Players who are at least decent at playing their white decks aren't going to have a huge problem with those. Tinker and Mentor are probably most difficult to deal with, but as long as one plays their hate cards at the right time, instead of dumping them all in one go, they're probably not that bad to deal with either. This is all assuming that PO doesn't just win T1.

@thewhitedragon69 They have Tinker and a bunch of Tutors. I don't think they're going to be as bothered by Rule of Law as other storm decks. Once they have Blightsteel Colossus out it's going to be pretty hard to get rid of it as White, since they run many many counterspells. IMO Tendrils would not be the main win condition against taxing decks.

Serenity is also not good. They can just cast PO, Hurkyl's, or flashback either with Snapcaster before Serenity goes off. And chances are, if you are at a point where you want to blow up all of their artifacts, they have a lot of them in play. If they have a lot of artifacts in play, they are likely ready to cast PO.

@moorebrother1 How did it get harder to beat? Compared to when? I haven't seen that many PO lists that deviate very much from the norm.

How about Back to Basics + Null Rod/Stony Silence, backed by some Hurkyl's and main deck counterspells? They usually run just 1-2 basic lands right? Null Rod is pretty easy to play early on in the game, and B2B isn't too bad to play either.

I've been trying this deck for a few days, following Juumonji Ryo's list. Maybe it's just my lack of familiarity with this deck (the creator won the EW with the deck after all), but it felt like if I didn't draw survival, or didn't have enough appropriate cards in hand to use Bazaar, I would be in topdeck mode, even with multiple cards in hand. I had a few games where I kept a decent hand without Survival, thinking 'surely I'll draw it soon', and ended up drawing it only way later in the game (sometimes too late). A little library manipulation to make draws more impactful could be really useful. Has anyone tried using Sylvan Library mainboard? I know some of you have it in the sideboard. It could replace Mox Jet perhaps.

@moorebrother1 We are essentially saying the same thing on the impact of new cards on Vintage. But why should we ban cards other than the ones that go against what are largely accepted as the most basic aspects of the game, such as those that use the ante mechanic? Using redundancy among different singleton cards is one of the appeals of the format in my opinion. With so many powerful cards available, the interactions between cards make possible, and necessitate (if you want the optimal version of the deck), subtle deck-tuning that you don't usually find in other formats. Having a single copy or two of a card in a Vintage deck can affect how the deck pilots much more than in Modern, for example.

I don't want vintage to become a one-of format like EDH. I think the availability of efficient unrestricted cards would prevent gravitation toward such a meta, anyway. Having impactful singleton cards in the nooks and crannies of the deck alongside the most efficient unrestricted cards printed in the game's lifespan allows the player to explore both the obvious lines and the more intricate plays that nevertheless are usually reliable.

I'm wondering why you want Vintage to start banning cards when there are other formats that have been made, and can be made, that only use cards from older sets.

I don't blame WotC for having difficulty in promoting deck diversity. There are so many cards available in the game, and there will be many more cards that will be printed that will have unforeseen and busted synergies with preexisting cards that lead to a select few decks dominating the games. A possible solution for players that want to play certain decks without being destroyed by 'meme' decks every match would be to limit the card pool to specific cards. Most formats do this already, as you know, but Vintage doesn't work this way since most cards will be restricted at worst. If you want to nurture that 'old Vintage' feel, you and enough people will have to make a B&R list, and a time frame to delimit sets that are legal or not legal, that you all feel are appropriate.

Chances are many of the old cards in Vintage decks will eventually become replaced with newer cards. New archetypes will supersede old ones.

I'm still not very used to using this card optimally, but I think this card will see some play in Vintage. More than in Legacy or Modern. It's really awesome in control-combo type decks where you need that little extra draw to get your combo started, or that one card to counter a spell before you go off the next turn. Casting Gush, Misdirection, and Fow (Daze even, in tight situations) for their alternate costs, Mindbreak trap, and so on, with just two blue mana in mid-late game makes your deck much more threatening than Snapcaster. If you leave two or three blue mana up, the opponent has to think, 'are they going to cast Mana Drain? Mission Briefing? FoW and then Mana Drain? Misdirection then Mission Briefing?' etc. etc.. This is in addition to all the things that Snapcaster would normally be able to flashback, provided you have enough mana (which is usually not a big problem).

Two blue mana are not a big deal for blue decks (which are the decks that would be running this card main deck) mid-late game; if you draw it early you can pitch it to FoW or Misdirection, or put it back into the library with Brainstorm. Obviously for Pardoxical Outcome, Delver and such, Mission Briefing does not replace Snapcaster, but for many other decks, Mission Briefing seems to introduce many more interesting and effective aspects of play than Snapcaster.

I don't know how much play this card will see in Legacy and Modern. I don't think there are nearly as many uses with this card in either format compared to Vintage, given that draw spells are cheap, and counterspells are more varied and versatile in Vintage. That's what I hope, at least, so I can pick this card up for cheaper than it is right now.

Decks that run a lot of counterspells already compromise a great deal to run those counterspells. To cast FoW without hardcasting it, you have to exile another blue card. To cast Mana Drain, you have to leave up two blue mana, with which you could cast ponder, brainstorm, whatever. Most counterspells are costed in such a way that, if the caster is not very discriminating in what to counter, they run out of resources very quickly. Aggro and combo players have many ways to outmaneuver, and many occasions to out-luck these control players even without uncounterable cards.

With the introduction of uncounterable spells, lands even (not even 'legendary'), players can cast stuff with one less thing to consider about what the opponent might have in their hand. With things like Cavern of Souls, you don't really have to consider counterspells, so there's one less axis around which strategies can be made. If you're playing against blue, you'll win more often, but by having these cards in play, the game has been simplified. Turn 2 Extirpating Life from the Loam against a Lands player entails no suspense or strategy. Turn 1 drop Cavern of Souls, dump a bunch of moxen, play Glowrider/Thalia, Reality Smasher, etc., you might as well be playing solitaire if the opponent is playing combo or control.

As a game involving chance, Magic needs to consistently sustain the feeling of 'if I had drawn this, I could've beaten that,' to make you want to shuffle your deck and play another match. With all these extreme cards without possible outs, that feeling does not take place. Instead of playing rock, paper, scissors, playing with these uncounterable spells feels like I can only play rock, and the opponent can only play scissors for the entirety of the game.