Sheeeeeet man the card pic thread is back!
I can see a ravager/ballista deck still being fine after losing three shops. I don't see a Stax or Martello deck surviving that hit. But who knows??
No chance even Ravager / Ballista survives a Shop restriction. The Eldrazi are so much better at that point it's not even close. The Shop creatures are bulk rare castaways without Workshop. Especially compared to the last 4-5 years of insane creature printings, most notably Eldrazi but secondarily the hate bears.
So if we banned everyone's pet card to hate on, what will vintage look like next month?
If we restricted everyone's pet card to hate we might be playing highlander.
The "Restrict Mental Misstep and Workshop Decks will be taken down a notch" argument is just saying "Let's cut taxes for the upper class, and let it trickle down to the middle class!".
It's blatantly false and makes you look like an uneducated lemming.
I'm not quite an uneducated Lemming, maybe a Lemming with a PHD. I think restricted Misstep will open the door to some other archetypes being ground floor playable. Whether those archtypes can dent the Shop / Stew dichotomy is impossible to gauge.
@moorebrother1 Noble Fish ran Mental Misstep and did just fine. Young Pyromancer killed Noble Fish.
Be sick if you could play Spell Snare huh?
@nedleeds So you have no basis for a Misstep restriction except if feels bad to have a 1 drop countered for zero mana. And you have no prognostication for a future metagame aside from vaguely pointing at various one drops and saying "this is a one drop that you can play without it getting Misstep." No actual deck ideas, no actual metagame shifts, no actual anti-shops tech. Great...
I've stated my basis. It's required to run other one drops because the cost of having a mana investment countered for 2 life and +1 mana is too much to bear. The exchange is so brutally inefficient you either play it or play a deck that ignores it. Nearly all the prominent results of the last 3 years back this up, decks either play 3.8 missteps or are sphere decks that ignore it.
Is it a feel bad? I guess so, but losing or knowing what you are doing is a waste of time feels bad in most games and sports. So you are priced into just also running your own Missteps (why it's banned everywhere else) or discarding your Deathrite Shaman because you were too stubborn to put Skillstep in your deck (or you have them but didn't in your opener but your opponent did, or your opponent had more ... read about this and more brain teasing scenarios in my new book Understanding Misstep).
As for my deck ideas, it's a bit of a futile exercise. You look down at the deck you are building and realizing you're out of space because you're cornered into playing Missteps to fight the 65% of the format playing 3.8. It's very similar to the (correct) argument about playing 'dead' cards in blue stew with respect to shops. Nothing beats free, no counterspell is as free as Misstep, it has no deck building constraints, is often +1 mana, +1 token it produces a bifurcated meta of spheres and missteps. Which is all the last 3 years has been sadly. We can build Skillstep dodging decks with Impulse and such ... but it's more an exercise in defiance than something that can be expected to perform in a real event. B/g depths had great results in testing vs. aggro shops but lost to multiple missteps, when I put missteps in my deck I would randomly sometime out misstep the misstep and win but the deck was diluted and of course the sphere matchup was worse. Misstep keeps decks that would prey on shops from even being seriously considered.
The argument of Gush pushing out all other draw engines applies here (which I didn't necessarily think mattered given how many blue draw spells we have now), Misstep just pushes everything out by way of forcing you to Misstep the Misstep or spin your wheels spending mana while your opponent moves forward.
@nedleeds I think you are conflating cause and effect. If you look at our data, Shops is 89.5% against Eldrazi (mostly white eldrazi) and 62% against various DRS fish decks. At Champs, these match ups were 80% (2/3 colorless) and 65%. What magical one drop is going to make up for 35% against Shops in Eldrazi? What magical human are you and @Stormanimagus going to pull out of Gatherer to beat Shops in Humans? You think these decks run Cavern of Souls because of Mental Misstep, which hits like 8 creatures in the deck, and not Force of Will? Mental Misstep isn't holding down Hatebears and restricting it will not bring those types of decks back. This is basically why do research - so I can point to numbers and say "try to come up with a better rationale for what you want to do".
I'm not concerned about some existing humans deck or any other existing deck. You could start from scratch and build decks without the shadow of Misstep informing your whole deck building and card evaluation process. You could play Noble Hierarch without Cavern or Misstep, and not get skill stepped. Again this is all because Misstep is unequal exchane of mana for no mana, nobody ever didn't play 2 drops for fear of spell snare.
The only way for removal to get better is for players to play more creatures susceptible to that removal, which is very unlikely to happen even with a Misstep restriction. I might even run less removal as I expect unfair decks like Rituals, Paradoxical Outcomes, even Belcher to be the major beneficiaries of a Misstep restriction.
Or creature decks that aren't shops could be decent again since they can actually resolve 1 drops without sacking cavern or diluting their deck with 3.8 missteps. They'd also not be holding a random number of Missteps to Skillstep your efficient 1 mana removal you do chose to include. It's hard to know now because I ran out of deck building space trying to defend my 1 drop creatures / sorcery speed because I had to play Misstep to Misstep your Misstep since nothing beats free. The 1 for 1 exchange isn't the issue, it's free vs. not free. If your deck has any intention of casting 1 mana sorcery speed speeds your either playing Missteps or Defense Grids.
In any case, I've never once cut removal because of Mental Misstep. Seriously. They are going to Misstep either a cantrip, removal spell, counterspell, or whatever so why would I change specific ratios of that when I can't actually dodge their Missteps?
Depends on whether you generally play 3.8 Missteps. The card is pretty much baked into the starting point of any blue list now. It's hard to untangle what you'd do. But I know what everyone does now, and that's just jam 4 missteps to defend their 1 mana removal against the hail of opposing missteps because nothing beats free. Which is completely justifiable given the percentage of blue stew misstep decks in the field (north of 60%).
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