This is like me bitching at the distance between wickets in cricket. Then having them change it. Because I played baseball in high school.

Sheeeeeet man the card pic thread is back!

Vintage Champs 2017 and the State of Vintage

http://www.eternalcentral.com/vintage-champs-2017-and-the-state-of-vintage/

Jaco breaks it down and advises that we take some time to adjust to this newest metagame.

Also, start with Lotus. Everything gets easier from there, and if there is another % jump in power the jump in Lotus will be the most from a raw cash perspective.

I don't take the internet too seriously, one of the benefits of being old.

I had started to put my thoughts together pre-Mentor Thorn restriction but never published anything. This article is a little long winded but traces the intersection of the last 6 or so years of events that led us here on the precipice of Workshop being restricted.

Usenet:

Article Link

Eternal Central:

Curious Case Article

@Juggernaut-GO said:

@Lysandros You missed the point completely.
I'm saying maybe it's time for shop players to learn how to diversify rather than rely on lucky opening hands to steal games. Not like it's dredge, come on.

So let's say players put some time into testing a -3 LSG shop build. They practice, go out, win a few events, but lose more than Gush / Mentor; they don't really even outpace Dredge. Overall the deck is good, but is less of the field than Gush / Blue Mess, has a lower or equal win rate and doesn't convert in the top 8; Oath seems to win everything. But the internet finds the list! The bane of MTGO! The crying begins anew on the formats loudest most watched platform and another restriction happens. This is basically what happened after the chalice restriction. Even worse the DCI is so rash to act they don't even let the calendar turn to another Vintage champs for you to even try the list. I'm saying the incentive to innovate or spend time (which dedicated Vintage players have less of for Magic than your average grinder) gets kicked in the nuts when the DCI makes these restrictions seemingly based on hurt feelings or aesthetics.

@ajfirecracker said:

@desolutionist https://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/v/98040029?t=03m00s Joseph plays a Mox Sapphire into a Thorn of Amethyst with no other mana sources in play

and it's an awful play ... there's a Smokestack on 2 ... you pass and hope Jacob sacs the Smokestack. Putting either the Sapphire or the Strand into play is fucking terrible. The guy literally has no idea how to play against the card. He isn't cheating. He's a sloppy player who got a GRV for that play.

Just want to point out that I'm not dominant in anyway and lost to Tribal Vampires for my second loss in the 4th round after which I dropped.

Also, the best thing that could happen for Gush decks ability to fight Thorn decks would be to restrict Mental Misstep. Prior to that blight on Magic being printed Spell Pierce and Spell Snare provided protection against Spheres without the card disadvantage of Force. Since the average "Gush Player" won't sacrifice a millimeter in the Misstep Circle Jerk and stop playing 4 x MM, 2-3 Fluster, 0-2 Pyroblasts main they get savaged in any matchup with a Wasteland and a Sphere. They'd lose to Glowrider midrange. Throw in a few Snares and Pierces and maybe a real removal suite and watch your matchup improve.

@jhport12 said in Notes on the State of Vintage, Jan 2017:

I'm curious to hear some nuanced theories about what would actually happen if Workshop was Restricted.

People would cry about losing to Ancient Tomb and it would be the next to go. The cries of losing to prison are always the loudest.

In the low variance world of 4 round events Shops can look daunting, but losing out on the most powerful draw, cantrip cards ever printed over 8+ rounds is what balances the card out to some degree.

White Eldrazi threads the needle combining the prison of shops with "real" lands and diversifying the threat base such that narrow solutions (Hurkyl's, Energy Flux, Kataki, Shattering Spree, Pulverize) are no longer a panacea. There's an argument to be made that White Eldrazi is a superior prison deck than any popular deck with 4 Shops. Restricting Shop only helps reinforce its dominance of the archetype. Does this solve whatever play experience problem you hope to change by restricting Shop?

One factor for Thalia's emergence was the printing of TKS. It paired a credible tough to kill threat with Thalia. I played quite a bit of Thalia during the Cruise era, and the card that vexed me more than anything was Lightning Bolt. There weren't many credible Cavern-friendly threats to pair with her that had more than 2 toughness.

@iamactuallylvl1 said in Vintage Format Health Update from WOTC:

Vodalian Hexcatcher

As long as stickers, Optimus Prime, Negan or that homeless white rapper aren't in the A tier decks I'm down for Vintage champs.

@thecravenone said in Spring 2020 Vintage Tournament?:

@sock-monkey said in Spring 2020 Vintage Tournament?:

@thecravenone

You didn't go to NYSE VI either so it's not surprising that you, as a Texan, are disinterested in New York events.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Prospero asked for people's opinion and I gave mine.

I've traveled pretty far to tournaments before, including to New York state within the last year. (And another non-Magic trip to NY about a month ago) My issue isn't with New York, it's about being in a difficult spot to get to in general. Like if I scheduled an event in College Station, sure you could get there (heck, United flies multiple flights every day) but I'd have a lot better turn out if my event was in Houston or Dallas or San Antonio or Austin.

Can I interest you in Chantilly Virginia?

If she was symmetrical she also doesn't get restricted. The issues with these insane 2019 walkers are the effects being so one-sided. Karn, probably had to go regardless. This restriction will return the Pyroblast mirror to being more light sabery and less bludgeony but it just adds another turnip to the blue stew. The 2 x narsets will get replaced with a Dack that was sidelined, or a Saheeli to churn tokens, or more Oko in the builds with Forests.

These restrictions aren't a sustainable solution in anyway. What I don't understand is that given how Vintage (and Legacy) are worth no money at all to WotC why they don't admit the obvious and just let the eternal formats use different constructed rules. They already basically do this with Vintage in that it's the only format with a restricted list. Vintage and perhaps Legacy should just use the original Legends deck construction rules for Planeswalkers and then when the inevitable next dozen planeswalkers need restricting it's already baked in. This rule got changed in 1995 I think with Ice Age (so you could play 4 x General Jarkeld).

Just say in these hallowed ancient wizard battles each player can only have 1 of each walker in their deck. I'd actually just make it by name, e.g. Jace / Chandra / OKO because I hate planeswalkers but I can see an argument for 1 of just Jace, the Mindsculptor. Not sure how the flip walkers would work, I'd just restrict those also, fuck it.

Always start with Lotus.

You sure you want to play dredge all day? As part of a vacation?

@gutocmtt said in Survival:

I've played both approaches, fow and deafening silence. Silence seems better against combo, but having fow increases by a lot our blue matchup. Played the playoffs with BUG survival and got 4-2 (9th place -.-) , fow helped a lot more than FoV would have.

Seems like there are less combo out there and I don't think it's worth playing white for it. 4 Leovolds between maindeck and sb seemed pretty good too. Too much blue out there, and with fow leo is a house.

What are you commonly FoWing against fair blue / xerox? What are you pitching? Deafening Silence crimps Xerox pretty badly as well they can't chain cantrips. And fast Thalia is a beating against Xerox.

I think a mix of 3-4 Ouphe, 3-4 Deafening Silence in your 75 are better than Force of Will at fighting broken in SotF. Moving back to Thalia2CMC hurts vs. shops but she's not a complete brick if you have an Ouphe out.

Trade Routes. Let's party!

Most people dropped the swiss ones anyone because they were primarily interested in signing up for the next one and earning a bye.