@chubbyrain Sometimes when a part of the game is not fun it is better to focus on a different part that you enjoy.
I am focusing my attention on deck building right now, so I am enjoying the game. With that said, I am looking the meta-game in a different way and I want to play different decks.
I think MTGO does offer a lot but for me sometimes going back to paper is just more fun.
Interestingly enough, I did change my PO deck to play in the new meta and it plays very well. I just need a break from MTGO for a while.
@khahan I did not think it was good against PO, but Dredge, Survival, and Shops it does some work. BUG and Mentor, it is not good either. I get your point but I do not think there are answers that beat any of these decks outright.
This card can be in a PO sideboard and it does slow down Dredge more than Grafdigger's Cage. Against Oath they can only ever have one token. It is not a silver bullet but it offers a cushion for you to push ahead of your opponent. 3 Vengevine and 2 Hollow One's on turn 1 or 2 is not uncommon and this stops that and buys you 2 turns.
This is probably going to be a Legacy option with Arclight Phoenix running around but I think it is at least something to think about in Vintage.
Text: If Leyline of Singularity is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.
All nonland permanents are legendary.
This card was used some time ago and it was decided that it was not very good. As I have been brewing, I have studied the meta-game and most strategies revolve around killing you with tokens or multiple copies of the same card.
Is this card ok in the meta-game now?http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=107697&type=card
@khahan That is kind of a loaded question. I have stopped looking at blue decks like that because the "shell" for blue decks are all so similar that they all start to blend into each other. I actually counted cards that make the deck different and you only get about 12 cards because the shells all start with 5 mox, lotus, ancestral, time walk, probe, dig, gush, cruise, brainstorm, ponder, preordain. It's not to say these cards make every deck the same or different but it is so easy to say all blue decks are Xerox. I just don't go there anymore.
I want to come back to this discussion. I took a break from MTGO and I have been brewing on paper. It looks like Xerox has gotten better and PO is harder to play in the meta. Shops is still really good but looks like it is played less. Is this meta still enjoyable?
I want to come back to this topic and discuss how to approach brewing a deck.
I want to build a Karn deck so I focused on the card Karn. I will say that I looked at 3 possibilities. First, a shop deck that helps push constructs. Second, a Paradoxical Outcome variant that bounces Karn and pushes fast constructs. Third, a planeswalker deck that plays a mix of planeswalkers to take control of the board.
None of these approaches are net new but all require a lot of time and thought. What is the best approach to get help here? I own all of the card on paper but I do not own them on MTGO. Do I buy in on MTGO to try this out even though it will probably fail? I am all about try and fail and try again but this is really hard to do in a bubble.
What is the best way to engage others and get people interested?
This podcast by @CyrusCG and @9thonbreakers is amazing http://topdownlegacy.libsyn.com/episode-9-how-to-prepare-for-a-big-event
I worked hard last year to become a better player and I tried several things that are recommended in this podcast and there are things here that I wish I had done too.
I know some look at Vintage casually and some take it very seriously. I play this game for many reasons and being competitive is part of it. Knowing how to prepare for events was very foreign to me.
@msg67183 Based on your current decklist and card collection, I would recommend going away from a "traditional" PO build.
You can play around with other concepts but you really need at least 2 Mox Opals and even then I would say add 1 or Chrome Mox to sure up your mana.
The turn 1 for this deck is critical and the ability to finish when you have an opening is even more critical. Lavinia has made playing PO very hard but PO is still one of the best decks in the format so that is saying something.
DPS will give you similar challenges but different options. Look at the @CyrusCG list from the VSL - https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2019/01/vintage-super-league-season-9-week-1-decklists/
It is a solid build
Dark Petition Storm (DPS)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Petition
4 Dark Ritual
3 Defense Grid
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
1 Defense Grid
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Fatal Push
1 Blightsteel Colossus
@msg67183 I do not believe Blightsteel Colossus is good main deck anymore. Inkwell is almost an I win against Xerox.
If you are not playing the black cards then you have to lean into the speed of the deck. You really need 4 Preordain. Force is very good in PO, I’m not sure flusterstorm is a substitute. You end up not being able to stop things that stop you.
I tested Erayo heavily and she is good against blue deck and not much else.
Defense grid would be better since you do not have FOW and you need removal and bounce. Probably a main deck Balance, Disenchant and Echoing Truth. All 2 drops to get past Mental Misstep. Play Mystical Tutor to find your answers.
@msg67183 Playing a Mentor PO vs Xerox is not good right now. The black cards are too good and really needed. I played the UW deck for a while and I recommend main deck swords to plowshares and main deck Karn. If you are playing tinker swap the bot to Inkwell. I found Aetherflux Resevior to be a good instant kill if you do not have black. Also, Erayo is really good against Xerox since they need at least 2 spells to get rid of her.
I have given up on straight UW PO and gone into Esper, it’s just better. The Grixis version is also strong.
I suggest going down on counter magic and just lean into the decks power. If you stay with UW you need to up the land count to at least 13 maybe even 14. look at @Smmenen list from VSL. Your deck will look similar to that but main deck Karn or Erayo and swap bot for Inkwell or Aestherflux.
Hope that helps.
@ajfirecracker When I play in large events now I usually bring multiple types of hate like 3 tormod's one Containment Priest and some Rest in Peace or 4 Leylines and 2 Traps with 1 Nihil Spellbomb. I find that you need to vary up the hate with enchantment/artifact/creature. That usually works best.
I really liked SaffonOlive's deck but I think it under performed. The Thalia's never worked and Kitesail was not good. I think adding more spells for Mental Misstep and Flusterstorm would have helped. I also like the idea of main deck Damping Sphere for an Esper creature deck with Bob.
I have been messing around with a version of this deck for a while and I am running JVP and Snapcaster but I think Hero of Precinct One with JVP and some solid spells could work in this meta.
@smmenen It's a good article and it touches on part of my question but does not arrive at where we are now, obviously because we are 16yrs in the future.
I asked this question because a casual format can be competitive. And a competitive format can be played in a casual way. I pushed myself to be much more competitive than I have been in some time and I enjoyed some of it and hated some it.
I do not long for decks of yesterday and I do not miss the old meta-games either. I miss being able to play paper Vintage every Monday. I miss having a somewhat large group of players playing the game regularly.
MTGO offers some of this but it is not the same. I am still trying to figure out how to use MTGO in a way that I find satisfying. I am still trying to figure out if paper Vintage can survive and grow. I have ideas on how to grow it locally but I am middle aged with 3 kids, a wife, and a mortgage.
Vintage is competitive and it is casual. That's just where we are now.
This is a loaded question but I should set out to define competitive and casual.
Competitive would look like Modern where there are many events, both paper and digital. There are defined decks but new decks are always entering the format.
Casual format looks like Old School. The format is mostly solved, the diversity of decks is usually based on creativity not competitive play. There are events but they are not as frequent or predictable.
I am not sure I will get much response to this thread and that is fine. But, I was speaking with my brother about preparing for upcoming events and we were discussing this very topic. We both play Vintage and Old School but based on the amount of events available right now. Vintage is feeling more casual and not as competitive.
I like to think of Vintage as competitive and maybe it is. Maybe it's mostly competitive online? I don't know, I am asking the question.
@gutocmtt That was the idea behind the thread. A lot of decks are designed to be efficient but have weaknesses that can be exploited on sideboards.
In a meta with no sideboard, your deck is less efficient and includes the hate for other decks. Decks that do not need to do this just race the meta.
I have been taking a step back from the meta to find something more interesting and this concept takes me back to the old decks when people played Keeper, Grow-a-tog, Academy, and Long. These decks all played wish cards and basically added very few cards from their sideboards between matches.
I'm not trying to go back, but the concept has phased out of the modern meta. I think building a deck that is either super efficient and fast or is very resistant to hate is our meta now. There are weaknesses here that can be exploited and should be exploited.
Here is a thought experiment. How would you design a deck for Vintage without a side board?
I know some will say this is dumb, and it kind of is. Vintage has hyper-efficient decks that can win turn one. If you look at Vintage 70% of the meta-game is 4 decks
20% - Shops
20% - Paradoxical Outcome
20% - Xerox
10% - Dredge
Survival is only about 5% of the meta based on what have seen but I could be wrong so feel free to flame me out.
Moving on, if Vintage were a best of one format most people would play Dredge or Storm, maybe Paradoxical Outcome. I think that is too dumb to discuss. But a best of 3 where game 2 loser goes first and game 3 is a coin flip on who goes first, like they are doing for the Mythic Champs is interesting.
How would you build a deck for such a arch-type? Is Vintage even fun in a design like this?