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    Maxtortion

    @Maxtortion

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    Website www.twitch.tv/maxtortion Location SoCal

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    Best posts made by Maxtortion

    • RE: MTGO

      @moorebrother1 What do you mean by "not challenged but annoyed?" You mention you're going 3-2 or 2-3 in leagues; how is that not challenging you?

      I'm married with a newborn baby, so I completely understand the time constraint. I can't really make it out to play paper right now, so that is one of the reasons I'm really enjoying MTGO. I can just play a match when I have 30 minutes, and even bounce the baby to sleep while doing it.

      If the deck you're playing isn't fun for you, that doesn't seem like a problem with MTGO. That seems like a problem with the deck you picked.

      Also, why are you disparaging net-decks? I'm a brewer, too, but the point of brewing is to exploit a hole in the metagame, and the metagame only exists because of these net-decks. I've found that the the Venn Diagram of "good players" and "players who disparage net-decks" to be two non-intersecting circles.

      Finally, if the same decks are winning online and losing in paper at your local events, the most likely culprit is that the person playing it online is much better than the person playing it in paper.

      If you're having trouble reconciling a different metagame online vs on paper, use MTGO to learn which cards and builds are most effective against which decks. Then, before your paper tournament, modify your list to contain the good cards against your expected metagame.

      posted in Vintage Community
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      A blue player through and through, I picked up Ravager Shops on Magic Online and experienced some pretty absurd amounts of success. I write about my experience in this article. I hope you enjoy it.

      https://thesaltminesite.com/100-matches-with-the-best-deck-in-magic-by-max-maxtortion-gilmore/

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @nedleeds @Smmenen

      I posted the argument about Misstep not because I agree with it, but because I intended this article for a largely non-Vintage audience, and most of them wouldn't have heard it before.

      As @Smmenen points out, as long as Blue decks are ~70% of the metagame, like they are now, it is 100% correct to be pre-boarded against Blue, and have dead cards vs Shops in your maindeck. I touch on this in my article.

      Do you know what other deck is also pre-boarded against Blue, with around 7 dead cards in its maindeck against Shops?

      Shops!

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: MTGO Decklist Publication

      Seems bad- we're going to lose out on seeing a lot of tech.

      I'm pretty sure that Esper and Grixis PO fall within 20 cards of each other, despite them being different decks.

      In a related note: a challenge for @brianpk80 : 5-0 with an Oath deck so different from other Oath lists that we get 2 Oath decks published. The threshold is 20 cards, and I think it's in the 75.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: MTGO Decklist Publication

      @brass-man said in MTGO Decklist Publication:

      In the event that these changes result in genuinely important technology and/or decklists missing from the reported results, I highly suggest you just post those decklists here instead 🙂

      Would it be a good idea to create a dedicated "5-0 Thread," where anyone who 5-0's an MTGO Vintage league is encouraged to post their decklist and matchups?

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: MTGO

      I guess I'm very confused about what you expected out of MTGO, so I'll try to explain what I get out of MTGO.

      I'm a very competitive person, and I consider myself a pretty good Magic player. I enjoy the challenge of competing against the best players, and I love the rush that comes from beating them.

      Most of best Vintage players play on MTGO. You'll find pretty much all of the Eternal Weekend Top 8, and many "faceless" players who are at least as good as them. Instead of being regionally and financially restricted, an MTGO Vintage deck is not that expensive, and your opponent can be anyone in the world.

      Since the prizing for these tournaments is, basically, open to anyone who can afford a deck, this leads to your average MTGO opponent being quite good. If they weren't, going 0-3 or 1-3 drop in Leagues or Challenges repeatedly would get exhausting.

      The "differences" that you are noting between MTGO and paper, like that you face different decks and stronger players on MTGO, I would argue actually favors MTGO. I want to play against the best players playing the most optimized decks- and the player who's playing dozens of matches per week is just going to have a more tuned list than the person playing maybe a dozen matches per month. I'm not even going to get into the card availability discussion that comes with Sanctioned paper Vintage, but, again, I'd rather play against good players on optimized decks.

      posted in Vintage Community
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @will I'm glad you enjoyed the article!

      For the record, I'm not specifically advocating for Mental Misstep to be restricted. I included that argument because I intended this article to be read and understood by a non-vintage audience, and most of them wouldn't have heard that argument before.

      Supply-side restrictions, much like supply-side economics, don't quite work as well in practice as they do in theory.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @smmenen said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      That said, the only really disappointing part of the article is that I felt you should have presented the pros and cons of possible Shops restrictions in more detail, instead of just an offhand remark about Inspector and/or Sphere. I think Ravager might actually be the best next restriction of Shops, as it is the card that makes Ballista so truly ridiculous, and thwarts other removal and Dack.

      Thanks for the reply and nuanced feedback. I'll start off by talking about why I didn't mention Arcbound Ravager for the chopping block:

      I think Arcbound Ravager is by far the deepest card in the deck. It's what lets you leverage your skill against your opponent's. It's the kind of card that depending on how you play it, different players will win or lose from the same boardstate. I think that having this sort of card is what keeps Shops interesting.

      The reason I suggested the cards that I suggested, Foundry Inspector or Sphere of Resistance, is because I believe that the current hate cards against Shops (like By Force and Energy Flux) are certainly good enough to beat the deck. The problem is that by the time the cards are actually able to be cast, it's often too late.

      Shops currently has 8 lock-pieces. With a 7 card hand, that's about a 65% chance of having at least 1 lock-piece in an opening 7. Restricting Sphere puts this number down to 47%. Also, reducing the likelihood of multiple Sphere effects allows these hate cards to get cast a turn earlier, which is often all that is needed.

      Foundry Inspector is the other side of the coin. It can often produce 3+ mana per turn, and it's not even a Workshop! It enables you to empty your hand extremely quickly, making creature-heavy draws into an extremely fast kill. Restricting Foundry Inspector slows down the Aggro plan by a turn. This turn, as mentioned, can be all the other deck needs in order to cast its hate cards.

      Also, I don't necessarily think Misstep should get the axe. It's just a popular argument so it would be disingenuous to not mention it. I intended this article to be understood by a non-Vintage playing audience, too, and most of them wouldn't have heard this argument before.

      @joshuabrooks said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      P.S. I'd love to know how you got 100 matches in with a 6 week old! My magic came to a grinding halt when the babies appear, lol.

      One of the best ways we have for calming our baby and getting him to stay asleep is to put him in an ErgoBaby strapped to my chest, while I bounce him on an exercise ball. So I replaced my desk chair with the exercise ball. Win-win.

      The way that players play their decks on MTGO reflects a video game scenario where they look at their interactions as if playing a computer not a person.

      @moorebrother1 said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      I very strongly disagree with your assessment. There's a reason the best MTGO players are the best paper players.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @brass-man Thanks! That means a lot.

      I write when I feel like I have something to say, and Vintage has been giving me a lot to say.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @timewalking said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      At first sight those stats would indicate that you're a much better player than the typical online player since even 16 matches is a lot to justify a 93.5% winrate. But considering your other matchups suffer by comparison, one could get the impression that Shops is actually a weak deck ! Of course many factors are at play, like as @ChubbyRain says, difference of the importance of skill in different matchups, possibly you just being better at playing the mirror than other matchups.. Also the sample is big enough to justify the overall winrate for this specific player.

      Please don't take it bad OP, you're clearly a very good player, and the article is interesting, but the data taken in isolation doesn't actually translate to "Shops is top" but "that player is"

      I'm a good player, but I'm not the best. My winrate at PTQs (when those were still a thing) was a little below 70%. I've played two GPs, both in Legacy, and neither with any byes. I went 10-5 and 11-4. I've never been on the Pro Tour.

      I know my way around a Brainstorm, but I'm not some Magic savant. I don't believe that I'm doing anything that remarkable with my play. Sometimes, it's quite the opposite.

      That said, I think the main takeaway about my winrate in the Shops mirror vs my winrate in the Blue matchups is that the Shops mirror is a lower-variance matchup than Shops vs Blue.

      When you think about how the matches play out, that makes a lot of sense. In Shops vs Blue, the most powerful Shops draws prevent the Blue player from doing much of anything. The weaker Shops draws get picked apart by powerful artifact hate cards.

      Meanwhile, the Shops mirror is about navigating Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Walking Ballista, and Hangarback Walker. It's about how to best leverage the ones that likely benefit you over your opponent, and when to Revoker / Spyglass the ones that likely benefit your opponent more than yourself.

      It's about how to sneak in chip shots of damage. It's about realizing when trading resources is better for you or for your opponent. It's about figuring out whose board state is likely to improve more by the next set of turns, and behaving accordingly.

      I'm not a player who suffers from tournament fatigue. I can play 12 rounds of competitive Magic in a day, and still be excited to jam games with friends after. The Shops mirror still makes my brain hurt.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion

    Latest posts made by Maxtortion

    • RE: MTGO Decklist Publication

      @brass-man said in MTGO Decklist Publication:

      @maxtortion I'd love it if people posted their cool decks here whether or not they 5-0'd, but I certainly don't have any issue with that sort of thread if someone wanted to make it.

      I totally get that, and wasn't meaning to be results-exclusive. I love to see cool decks, 5-0s or not.

      The idea behind my suggestion is to get a more thorough snapshot of "what's winning" as opposed to "what's cool."

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: MTGO Decklist Publication

      @brass-man said in MTGO Decklist Publication:

      In the event that these changes result in genuinely important technology and/or decklists missing from the reported results, I highly suggest you just post those decklists here instead 🙂

      Would it be a good idea to create a dedicated "5-0 Thread," where anyone who 5-0's an MTGO Vintage league is encouraged to post their decklist and matchups?

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: Rules Questions concerning Dual Giselas

      @matori said in Rules Questions concerning Dual Giselas:

      @chubbyrain said in Rules Questions concerning Dual Giselas:

      reducing the damage dealt from 5 to 2 as it is rounded down.

      Card text : If a source would deal damage to you or a permanent you control, prevent half that damage, rounded up.

      Seems like it will be 5 to 3 then doubled, right?

      The prevented damage is rounded up. 2.5 damage is prevented, rounded up to 3 damage prevented.

      posted in Rules QnA
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: MTGO Decklist Publication

      Seems bad- we're going to lose out on seeing a lot of tech.

      I'm pretty sure that Esper and Grixis PO fall within 20 cards of each other, despite them being different decks.

      In a related note: a challenge for @brianpk80 : 5-0 with an Oath deck so different from other Oath lists that we get 2 Oath decks published. The threshold is 20 cards, and I think it's in the 75.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @ravager101 said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      UPDATE: another 3 leagues in the books with a solid 12-3 record. Highlight was going 4-1 in the last league with all wins 2-0 and my one loss 1-2 to our hero Maxtortion

      Nice! And if it's any consolation, I 5-0'd that league.

      2-1 Landstill
      2-0 5c Humans
      2-0 Ravager Shops
      2-1 Ravager Shops (you)
      2-1 Ravager Shops (Montolio)

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @nedleeds @Smmenen

      I posted the argument about Misstep not because I agree with it, but because I intended this article for a largely non-Vintage audience, and most of them wouldn't have heard it before.

      As @Smmenen points out, as long as Blue decks are ~70% of the metagame, like they are now, it is 100% correct to be pre-boarded against Blue, and have dead cards vs Shops in your maindeck. I touch on this in my article.

      Do you know what other deck is also pre-boarded against Blue, with around 7 dead cards in its maindeck against Shops?

      Shops!

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: Math and Max: A statistical analysis of "100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic"

      @will said in Math and Max: A statistical analysis of "100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic":

      A somewhat random aside and I may be mistaken, but I think that Max was running Steel Overseers while many of the “Shops Mirrors” he played in may have been against Ravager decks that did not run Overseer.

      I actually kept on switching a few cards between leagues. I rarely entered a league with the same 75 twice.

      In Leagues 16-19, I played Car Shops, a la Nick DiJohn. I went 2-1 in Shops mirrors with Car Shops vs Overseer Shops, and 13-0 in Shops mirrors when I had Overseers. As you said, Overseer is insane in the mirror.

      @womba said in Math and Max: A statistical analysis of "100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic":

      After a rough start with some misclicks and going 3-2 my first league with the deck I have gone 4-1, 5-0, and 4-1.

      It looks like you're also at 80%. That's awesome!

      I'm curious if anyone has been Game 1 Mulliganing against you, thinking you were on Dredge. I know I've done that against you once. I threw away a totally reasonable 7 because it couldn't beat Dredge, and you opened up with Blue spells! Learned my lesson.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: Math and Max: A statistical analysis of "100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic"

      Max has collected his data - Now we have to determine whether or not Max is good or lucky. And honestly, we cannot know for sure.

      @Koby would make the claim that I exist in a perpetual state of lucky. I’m inclined to agree.

      @ChubbyRain , thank you for taking the time to make this. It was data-driven, interesting, enlightening, and possibly the most statistically-backed compliment I’ve ever received. I would also be super interested in seeing the combined data, but understand the massive time commitment that doing so entails.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @timewalking said in [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic:

      At first sight those stats would indicate that you're a much better player than the typical online player since even 16 matches is a lot to justify a 93.5% winrate. But considering your other matchups suffer by comparison, one could get the impression that Shops is actually a weak deck ! Of course many factors are at play, like as @ChubbyRain says, difference of the importance of skill in different matchups, possibly you just being better at playing the mirror than other matchups.. Also the sample is big enough to justify the overall winrate for this specific player.

      Please don't take it bad OP, you're clearly a very good player, and the article is interesting, but the data taken in isolation doesn't actually translate to "Shops is top" but "that player is"

      I'm a good player, but I'm not the best. My winrate at PTQs (when those were still a thing) was a little below 70%. I've played two GPs, both in Legacy, and neither with any byes. I went 10-5 and 11-4. I've never been on the Pro Tour.

      I know my way around a Brainstorm, but I'm not some Magic savant. I don't believe that I'm doing anything that remarkable with my play. Sometimes, it's quite the opposite.

      That said, I think the main takeaway about my winrate in the Shops mirror vs my winrate in the Blue matchups is that the Shops mirror is a lower-variance matchup than Shops vs Blue.

      When you think about how the matches play out, that makes a lot of sense. In Shops vs Blue, the most powerful Shops draws prevent the Blue player from doing much of anything. The weaker Shops draws get picked apart by powerful artifact hate cards.

      Meanwhile, the Shops mirror is about navigating Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Walking Ballista, and Hangarback Walker. It's about how to best leverage the ones that likely benefit you over your opponent, and when to Revoker / Spyglass the ones that likely benefit your opponent more than yourself.

      It's about how to sneak in chip shots of damage. It's about realizing when trading resources is better for you or for your opponent. It's about figuring out whose board state is likely to improve more by the next set of turns, and behaving accordingly.

      I'm not a player who suffers from tournament fatigue. I can play 12 rounds of competitive Magic in a day, and still be excited to jam games with friends after. The Shops mirror still makes my brain hurt.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion
    • RE: [Article] 100 Matches with the Best Deck in Magic

      @will I'm glad you enjoyed the article!

      For the record, I'm not specifically advocating for Mental Misstep to be restricted. I included that argument because I intended this article to be read and understood by a non-vintage audience, and most of them wouldn't have heard that argument before.

      Supply-side restrictions, much like supply-side economics, don't quite work as well in practice as they do in theory.

      posted in Vintage News
      Maxtortion
      Maxtortion