Cool, thanks for the input. Yeah my collection has about two full sets of P9 all duals, shops, bazaars, and tons of rares. So it would be a pain to sell it one card (even 4x) at a time. And I realize it would be a bit to buy it in bulk so that limits who would even be able to. My beta power is played condition, but I have pristine unlimited. Not sure that's worth grading due to white borders. I'll keep thinking about it. Thanks again.
My Magic cards have been lonely and shelved for a while now and I'm seriously considering selling them. A buddy says I should get them all PSA graded first. Anybody have tips for this? I have all the rare goodies, and it would take forever to get them all graded. Plus, I have some spare copies I got in used condition with the sole purpose to play with them (sleeved of course) and not be worried if they got a little moderate use. I'm not 100% selling, just interested in info. I don't really have the time for individual card sales, and I realize that by selling in bulk that severely limits who could be potential buyers. Any tips or advice?
Yeah, using Port in between Stax and Tangle is pretty good. I've always been a fan.
How are you liking no metamorphs in the maindeck? I always preferred them in the sb.
I like that Spyglass is proactive as well as reactive. Sure would have been great if it had legs. I'd run it, but then I wouldn't have very many win conditions left in the deck. Truly missing those extra 3 Lodestones....
I'm back and forth on Expedition Map really. Sometimes it's amazing, and then sometimes it's just clunky. It seems great in your list since you run utility lands. The only singletons I use are Tolarian Academy and Strip Mine. I'm running a similar land count as you (22) and kinda want them all. I love rarely having to mull.
I don't think the lone Chalice will make or break the deck to be honest. But I'll still keep the dream alive because on turn 1 it prevents permanents hitting the board and has a huge impact on the game.
I'm testing out a more proactive card and it's doing surprisingly well in Stax. Not sure why I haven't really tried it before. Once I see some more results I will share my findings. Might be a tournament I want to take it to first
@senor_bisquick Cool, I think you'll like the Ports. A very underrated and underplayed card in my opinion when it comes to Stax. Let me know how they work for you. Just remember to stack them optimally during upkeeps.
Hmm if Oath is that much of a pain is there a reason you don't want the 4th Smokestack? If i can get an early Smoke online, I'm pretty happy sacrificing orchard tokens. And it's not like we run a ton of creatures. A late game Karn can be used as a finisher if you have enough artifacts to swing for the kill.
I hope to be able to test more soon.
I haven't had much time over the holidays, but here's what I would try:
You could do a 2/2 split with Bomb and Powder Keg. I just prefer that Ratchet Bomb can get rid of Oath which I feel is more of a threat than man lands.
Rishadan Port is another sphere effect. Being a prison style deck, we want as many as possible especially after restrictions. Try it on their upkeep. Use the stack to your advantage and have Port resolve after Smokestack, or before Tangle Wire so you can make sure a creature gets tapped. Good on man lands too.
Karn turns your Smokes, Tangles, and Crucibles into a nice clock.
MUD's main advantage is it's consistency, so I prefer to use as many 4-ofs as I can to achieve this. If I'm putting a singleton card in a MUD deck, you better believe it's because it's restricted.
Bazaar is cute and situationally good , but it's never been amazing outside of UbaStax when put in a Workshop deck from my experience.
@senor_bisquick Thanks for the list. I'll post one soon enough.
The counts are a bit off, for example the Ancient Tomb is in the Business section and there are 8 Mana Rocks listed.
And yes I agree, Stax/Prison MUD isn't probably optimal right now but I do feel it's still a viable option despite that fact. Stax decks will always be my baby. I loved the consistency since that made up for the lack of card draw these decks were missing.
That being said, I'm not sure why only 3 Smokestacks. To be honest, if they printed another version of that card I'd probably run 2 more copies.
I'm curious, why 1 Keg and 1 Bomb? I would think Bomb is far superior.
Metamorph as a 4 of has always perplexed me. Probably because I'm more proactive though. I generally hate seeing 2 of them in opening hands.
Since you have 3 Maps, why not just singletons of the utility lands like Bazaar and Fair? I'm actually going to test out 4 Maps soon enough. Not like they gave us too many other choices to work with....
Keep up the good fight!
I'm not really sure Stax/prison is super viable when it's missing 3 Lodestones, 3 Thorns, and 3 Chalices.
That being said, Ratchet Bomb seems pretty good so far. Also I would recommend players trying to lock out their opponents add in Rishadan Port. When used during their upkeep, it's essentially another sphere effect for non-instant speed spells. They've always been awesome for me.
People can doubt it, but Expedition Map is pretty solid. You should be running at least 3 Crucibles anyway, and they find your Strip or Wasteland for a low investment. For 3 mana you can get another Workshop to break even....or better yet get your Tolarian Academy. I don't like it (because I find it less consistent), but Map allows for running singleton utility lands if that's your preference.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
I've been testing Null Rod and I'm really not liking it. I'm gonna give Ratchet Bomb another whirl since it can actually kill the moxen, albeit symmetrically. The fact that it can also kill zombie tokens (and ballista) right away, as well as be amped up to kill an Oath makes it pretty appealing.
Kill Switch seems like an amazing sb card vs MUD aggro. Nice.
That list from 2016 has 3 extra slots once you take out the Thorns. Since it runs Bazaar, I'm curious if Buried Ruin would be a good card for it. Bazaars always have been clunky for me in MUD, so I'm not a fan.
@chubbyrain said in The Curious Case of Mishra's Workshop:
Yeah, this was an insane start
Thanks for the screenshot.
Dear lord, that's crazy. He get's to play his entire opening hand of 7 cards plus the one he drew.....and then topdecks the Ravager?
Situations like these are definitely outliers. It's fun when it happens (unless you are the opponent), but that's such an anomaly.
Statistically, a turn 2 Oath should win with a higher frequency. While it definitely shows the potential explosiveness for Shop Aggro, I'm not sure how much this situation matters for the big picture.
@mourningpalace True, but the problem is that my Ebay account is long gone. And I know that years ago when I used it, I would never even dream of making a large purchase from a new account or someone with very few transactions. Maybe that's just a personal preference.
@chubbyrain That is correct. I consider a deck to be blue if it can easily support Force of Will. It's good that you brought up Oath because the recent list I saw from brianpk80(I remember him from this site) has twenty two (22!) blue cards. While I totally appreciate the subtleties involving sub-classifications, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for me to be willing to lump that in as a "Blue" deck. Could you agree to that? That deck, and others, support my claim that it's fair to say Blue decks are doing good in the field, and always have been. Maybe I should phrase it like this: What is your major concern with the current state of Workshop in the format? Anything specific that I missed?
And I know B&R discussions get heated. Jesus, I remember the fury that was unleashed when they restricted Brainstorm. So I'm sure you've been met with plenty of "Don't restrict my Workshop!" without anything following after it. I get it, that's annoying.
And it probably isn't that problematic to lump Shop decks since they are mostly the same currently. I just wanted to point out that for years they have in fact done that. And they have never done that with Blue to the same extent. I've seen a variety of decks simply labeled as "Shop" when compiling the data in the past. I believe that history has caused some to view Mishra's Workshop as being too dominant, when DIRECTLY compared to Blue decks (or Force of Will, if you rather), that's simply not the case.
Yes, I accidentally cast Juxtapose on the restriction timings of those two cards! Or perhaps someone used Mindslaver on me...Either way, those restrictions turned my MUD heart to stone.
Could you direct me to the screenshot post of that turn 2 win?
@chubbyrain True, Ravager is prevalent from what I'm seeing. If a deck does decently and puts up numbers, the more people will want to play that same deck. Maybe they change 1-4 cards, but it's essentially the same deck. I've seen enough tourney results on TMD back in the day to know that's been the case for ages. I get why they do it. Why reinvent the wheel?
So let's take that same logic and apply it to Blue decks. How many cards different should basic blue decks contain to be labeled as something else and not just be classified as "Blue". My contention is that Blue decks have been Top 8'ing since.....well forever pretty much. It would be very difficult to argue against blue having the best cards in the game.
Do we really want fewer Workshop decks? Because that's what will happen if you indeed axe Workshop. Ancient Tomb will just not cut it alone. It seems a lot of people just want more diversity among blue decks and that's what they consider "balanced" and "healthy" in regards to the meta. I get the sense that they want a typical T8 to consist of 6 blue decks (one being a 'fish' variant maybe to give them hope), a Dredge deck, and a Workshop deck. Yay diversity.
I'm pretty old here on TMD, and while I haven't posted, that doesn't mean I haven't been secretly lurking. Yes I took a hiatus and I won't lie, it was mainly due to the restriction of Lodestone Golem. Then I come back and find Chalice was axed too? Am I truly to believe that Workshop decks have gotten BETTER since the restriction of those two cards? If you want to convince me of that, I'm going to be a hard sell.
Maybe taking lock pieces away from Shop players is what decreased the diversity. Imagine that.
And thank you, it's good to be back.
@joshuabrooks I wasn't attempting to be harsh, just point out flaws in an opinion (yes, an opinion) that seemed clad in steel. If you can't scrutinize something, there is no new knowledge to be gained.
Ok then go over this because this is the most recent thing you posted in the tournament results page:
I see "Shops" lumped together and not Shop combo, Shop Aggro, Shop Control etc.
Now I see quite a few blue decks....not lumped together but given their own fun names/categories so as to make it appear like "diversity" of the format.
This data really helps illustrate my point, so how the heck are you interpreting this in your favor?
If you are going to lump decks together why not just do it right and lump the FORCE OF WILL's together then do the same for the MISHRA'S WORKSHOP's and then do the comparison of your supposed healthy and balanced meta.
Regardless that you don't appear to be correct, the effort you put into doing this is appreciated by some I'm sure. That being said....."There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."