@gkraigher i would have to disagree with you saying city is the single best card, grafdiggers cage is. while cage dosnt stop them from dredging, what it does stop is narcomeaba, cabal therapy, dread return, ichorid, and any other graveyard shenanigans, dredge can still operate without bazaar, but it cant operate without creatures coming back from the grave. Also it doubles as hate against one of shops worst matchups which is oath.

i dont think there is a fundamental turn in vintage like modern, the biggest reason for this imho is that there is much varience in games, and that there is a wide variety of deck, from the turn one decks to the turn 20 decks, and the simple fact you can win out of no where, so in my opinion there is no fundamental turn.

@Serracollector there is mana crypt http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/eternal-masters-spoilers-5-23

@Thermia vintage can be scary at first to get into, i still consider myself new to vintage, and my advice would be to find a deck and stick with it until you get more comfortable with the format. thats not to say play that deck and only that deck forever but once u get comfortable with the format, the interactions, etc., then branch out to different decks. As for the decks you said you looked like your style, im not sure which big blue decks you mean as there are many but since you are just starting out i recommend staying away from storm and steel city vault type decks, its hard to understand the format as it is and playing a deck like that will make it even harder, i would recomend mentor or a delver deck.

i personally have not played eldrazi and i havnt played against it much but to me it seems that crucible of worlds would be good against them, recur your wasteland effects to mana screw them, and when they waste you you can get the land back and you can end up with a mana advantage, maybe as a two of in the sideboard, plus it has splash damage against shops.

I would go into the tournament with DPS

i started playing magic when rtr came out, but i never had the money to play competitivly so found cockatrice and played a little standard and then worked into playing modern, legacy, and finally vintage, and ive been playing vintage for about three tears but in the last year i got really deep into it and thats what i mainly play.

wow, i never took the 5c humans deck seriously, now im gonna have to.

if you could get the counters on it, it would stop dredge, and could hurt oath a lot, but its very corner case, maybe in grixis therapy where they already play bolt, and can get in some damage but it may be a win more card.

@JuzamJim because young pyro beats mentor in my experience

@revengeanceful thank you, I'll keep an eye out for the details

I was wanting to know if there would be any full proxy vintage tournaments around CT, NY, or MA, thanks in advance.

@shax im assuming you would bring in leyline against dredge as well, do you think helm could have a place in the side against dredge as a way to win quickly as dredge has many ways to deal with a leyline, helm would give a way to win with the leyline out, im not sure if its good enough or even worth the slot for just dredge but just an idea.

phage reanimator would be a great deck imho

both lists look sweet, but why no necro in the black belcher deck?

personally im gonna try it out just for the fun of it, three to four copies plus dragon breath might work, competitive, probably not, fun, hopefully.

the main differences is that i played recoup to flashback time twister as my graveyard shuffle effect, and i played sun titan and vault key and finally i played tinker into sphinx of the steel wind and memory jar

@xxhazardxx if you would like, i used to play oath that was more combo orientated, i could link the deck if you want although if your already comfortable with your deck the way it is now i wouldnt make to many changes till after et.

i could be wrong but i dont think true name would be to good in a control style deck, yes it is an amazing card but it dosnt help with the plan to control the game, but in a fish style deck, it would be amazing, so it really depends on the actual deck your trying to slot it into.

@topical_island didnt think about that lol