Point I do think that, even if Wizards shuttered tomorrow, Vintage would still have a strong community and an evolving metagame (see: old school) but it is very true that new printings have had an increasingly high impact on the format.
Regarding the standard combo, from Sam's article today, they were at least aware of it at the time of bannings (if not before).
I'm not sure how ya'll feel about your Dredge match-up, but getting out-raced by Toolcraft on stream tonight was a beating. It's fast, closes the door way faster than thought-knot.
This deck is hella powerful, honestly no idea how to side effectively against ya'll. Nice work!
@Brass-Man This, wholeheartedly. Maybe this is to see if combo can exist in Standard, safely. Either way, Old School & Vintage aren't going away. We're existing in an area entirely unsupported by Wizards as it is, other than being thrown a bone or two in every set for Vintage.
There's a Vintage event on the 22nd, if you're out here soon enough! http://themanadrain.com/topic/935/1-22-vacaville-forgotten-path-games
I agree with essentially all of your listed pros and cons, but find that the "shit I don't know" is essentially the crux of the problem - every single card does not need its own thread. You pointed out some excellent examples of cards that deserve their own threads, or at least merit discussion. It's exactly the "well maaaaaaybe this is possibly playable" cards that are the problem, i think. And people seem to have issue discerning. I'd be happy to see a thread for every card that fit in one of the categories you listed, and with as much detail as noted.
I'd also note that subforums, and the ability to unsubscribe from them, seems to solve everyone's issues. New card discussion goes in one, and gets moved when a card proves its relevance - in which point it should be in an archetype thread, or legitimate strategy questions could be raised in the main forum.
I mean there is a thread about Mechanized Production. C'mon.
Here's a thread for discussion of this topic: http://themanadrain.com/topic/911/vintage-strategy-spoiler-subforum
Like a number of folks here, I'm a bit tired of seeing the spoiler threads for every card under the sun. Thought I'd make a thread to discuss / propose some solutions.
My favorite option is thus:
- Spoiler threads have their own dedicated subforum, and do not appear in Unread.
For me, the spoiler threads are ruining the unread feature. Marking everything in Vintage Strategy as read isn't necessarily difficult, but I'd rather not miss legitimate content because of noise. Obviously it's nice to see discussion on the new trike, but we're going to get 150+ new cards constantly, and making a new thread for every one is silly. At the same time, I understand that there are folks who find discussing every card to be valuable here, given the explicit Vintage context.
@Topical_Island does that stat mean anything? Say, just for example, that Mentor decks play both and Pyro decks play one or the other. In that case it could be Mentor that increases those decks placing, not the misstep/mindbreak pairing. Unless you're breaking down by archetype, I'm not sure you can trust that conclusion.
For starters, shoutout to @Brass-Man for being website god. This is a seriously quality site.
I'd be happy to write a compilation thread for Dredge resources, at least; I haven't played long enough to write any sort of primer, but I have done all of the research that a new player would repeat.
Similarly, I think it would be excellent for anyone who has done research on an archetype to post the results of their research. Much of the content we're talking about has already been written, it's just not all in one place - if we start with a plan of aggregating basic content on the major archetypes, that could help.
I definitely think an @Islandswamp -led collaboration article/thread on common cards and interactions you'll see in Vintage would be a boon to the community, like, "If you want a single-article broad introduction to the cards and strategies you'll see, this is it". Sort of a Vintage intro sheet, with links to the Vintage 101 articles for deeper reading. I think after someone has read all of those, they'll have a good idea what archetype they'll want to pick up, and then they could come here to one of the aforementioned research-aggregate threads to learn more about, and discuss, that archetype.
Hey ya'll! @OriginalOestrus (Erin Campbell) is streaming Vintage Dredge tonight, and I'll be a guest on the stream helping co-pilot. We'll be playing @vaughnbros 75, so there should be some great games!
You can find the stream here: https://www.twitch.tv/originaloestrus
You can find @vaughnbros article on the deck here: http://blackmagicgaming.com/stirring-the-pot-playing-pitch-dredge-to-perfection/
Please come hang out, or, even better, join the daily! We'd love the daily to fire this week so we can have an exciting stream Last week was super fun, we played several games in the casual room (daily didn't fire) and then switched over to Legacy dredge. But we just want to Bazaar - Go. It's the Dream.
Hope to see you there
- Sarah / lesbimagical
Regarding keeping Serum Powder in with the transformation, @vaughnbros, I think with your list (at least the last XL dredge list you published) it makes less sense to keep in. @ajfirecracker's sideboard is entirely focused on the Depths plan (not to say the deck is post-board, but the SB is), so Powdering into that is a realistic option. Your sideboard, on the other hand, is less focused on drawing the Depths plan in the opener - and given that each piece is only a 2-of, with no hexmages, Powder is less likely to give you what you need. Plus, your keepable hands have a wider variety (if possibly not quantity) of cards - for example, in the match against LSV, double Force + Stripe Mine was a fine hand that doesn't have an equivalent in the purely transformational deck. Thus, removing cards that have positive utility to keep in cards that are only useful in the opener is a less sensible choice in XL.