There's an important word missing from this card, though, that gives its functionality in many common situations: Draw. This is not card draw so it sidesteps effects like leopold and narset, parter of veils (and the no-longer played uba mask).
It will see play - maybe not a lot. But I think early on it will appear in a few decks.
@desolutionist said in Rules for Vintage B&R list:
A Shops deck with only 1 Workshop is still a Shops deck. Just like a Gush deck with only 1 Gush still embodies the spirit of a Gush deck. It would want to play Wastelands, City of Traitors, Crystal Vein, some fast artifact mana and just power out Spheres and Lodestone Golems. If you recall the mtgo classic format, all the best decks were just worse versions of all the current vintage decks. (Classic didn't have the entire Vintage cardpool such as power) No matter how you slice it -- Null Rod or Eldrazi or whatever, its still the Shops deck.
Technically, that is true but this won't happen. Reason is that you forget something in that analysis : shop deck are running about 40 artifacts because because 4 workshops make it worth it. Now if you have only 1 workshop and no (or few) way to tutor it would you still want to play that many artifacts ? Would not you want to add some color and get all nice effects that brown is missing ?
Ultimately, you will play a whatever-deck with a more than average number of artifacts to still get nice use of the singleton workshop (could be for exemple some kind of turbo-tezz or something like the 5C shop decks that used to be played). I am not sure if such decks would be still shop decks.
On the other hand, singleton Bazar does weaken Dredge decks but does not kill them : They are called dredge decks not bazar decks ... they loose their best tool but not their reason of being.
Sounds like you've never been run over by shops when they dont draw workshop and just draw 1 of multiple sol lands and any of their thousand or so 2 drops.
@khahan Yeah, Type 4 was the inspiration for this format, but instead of drafting decks, you play with one shared library and grave, which makes for REALLY fun interactions/play lines and makes ungodly-awful cards like "Whisk Away" into a brutal turn of fortunes. The haymaker aspect of Type 4 is intact, but the shared zones really makes this format amazing.
Maybe its regional. The t4 we played in my area was what you are describing - shared library, shared graveyard, infinite mana. Just 1 spell per turn per person seems to be the main difference.
I have to agree with Chubbyrain on being wary of a rules based list for B&R. For one, every single time a rule is created you have:
- unintended consequences - things you didn't intend for the rule to cover that get covered.
- abuse - hedging the rules, bending the rules, circumventing the rules
- corner cases - things that just dont fit nicely into the rules but still need addressed.
- more rules - typically to deal with issues #1and #3. And of course when a new rule is made, we circle back to the top of the list.
@Khahan players are leaving older formats in paper due to accessability of cards. While proxy events are fine in conceptz its a novelty that wears off. Many players who have an interest in learning the format will play a few times with the proxy deck, then move on once they realise they'll never be able to afford the actual cards.
The #1 problem killing paper magic for old formats has always been and will always be the reserve list.
Except that I'm seeing a decline in attendance. Meaning people who used to come, therefore they have access to cards, are no longer coming. The reserve list is blocking new people from getting into the format and definitely is a contributing factor. But its one we can do nothing about.
Players with access who have played paper but move to online - that is something we may be able to do something about.
I agree with you 100% that the reserve list is a major problem. Its just a different problem than I'm asking about.
Before the shutdown, Deal Me in Games was discussing utilizing its own B&R list. We interviewed a handful of local players for their thoughts on a B&r list as well as having the event organizer (myself) and event sponsor (deal me in's owner) submit lists. Then compiled a B&r list which we were discussing utilizing for our 2020 T1 events. If we ever get back up and running, we revisit doing this.
But to be honest, regardless of altering the B&R and which stores B&r to use etc, I wonder just how much longer paper vintage has to live. I don't think its a 'sky is falling' moment to declare that paper vintage was on life support. And now with a multi-month shut down of shops and events and potentially a year off from the biggest vintage events each year, I'd have to say that somebody's hand is on the plug.
I've supported Vintage since the early 2000's when I got CCG to start up their tournaments which became the blue bell events. I took a break from magic and when I came back I got Deal Me In to start up a vintage series. I'll always support it as long as there's a player base. But over the years I've seen the player base dwindle down to next to nothing.
So the question shouldn't be what B&r list should we use. The question SHOULD be, what can we do to bring paper vintage players back? I'd love to hear some answers from members like chubby and brianpk who have migrated to online as their primary focus. What would it take to get you guys and others who have moved away from paper vintage back?