@moorebrother1 Absolutely, and I really hope archetypes emerge which are built around these new cards. I definitely think Bolas' Citadel is one such card, and is definitely the one I want to build an archetype around when it gets released. I more just mean I don't think this set will shake up Vintage too much. We'll hopefully get a few new archetypes and a few new toys in existing ones.
As excited as I am for this set, I don't think Vintage will change too much. I have a hard time believing the fundamental building blocks of Vintage will disappear due to these new printings. I think it's more likely that one of 3 things will happen.
- New card slots into an existing archetype
- New card creates a new archetype that's fringe playable
- New card is messed around with for a few weeks, then fades away
I think as high as the power level of this set has been, Khans probably will have changed Vintage on a fundamental level more than the upcoming set will. As someone said, the london mulligan rule has the potential to change things more!
Anyone knows how this works with X spells? I mean, from the text I gather that if I play a Fireball for 10 I'd have to pay 11 life, but I can do it, right?
X will be 0 if you use the alternate casting cost.
Easily my favourite card revealed so far. Definitely will try a storm-y shell but it might not necessarily even need Rituals in the same deck. I've always loved Future Sight as a card, and now we have one in black that also let's you cheat on mana. Definitely pushing the envelope with this one and I'm liking it.
Comedy option of using Drafna's Restoration to get all your artifacts back exists. If they are all moxen, putting them on top of your library accomplishes the same thing more or less.
Anyway, the fact that we legitimately have a card in standard that might compare favourably with actual Yawgmoth's Bargain makes me unbelievably happy.
If I am reading this table correctly, it says that the probability of finding a particular/specific restricted card in your opening hand under the London system and with 4 powders is 75.52%?
I'm assuming that Bazaar is the column, and Powder the row. That's pretty astounding.
This is quite exciting and scary. In addition to what you pointed out above, if you include tutors as additional copies of restricted cards, you can get access to any restricted card as a consistent gameplan. I wonder how much this opens up building around restricted cards. Of course it's already done to some degree, but this could catapult it even further.
Very well-written piece and I enjoyed reading it, even though I disagree with most of it.
I find it interesting that Rich proposes a major spring cleaning of Vintage when he's talked about how disastrous the restrictions of 2008 were to Vintage many times before. What makes him think the same thing won't happen again?
But more to the point, let's even assume the changes you propose above will ultimately be good for Vintage. Currently there is a game that plenty of people engage with, and for all intents and purposes is popular. As far as I've seen, I understand attendance in the Vintage challenges is fairly high. Is this not taking a game plenty of people currently enjoying and saying "You know what, you can no longer play this game. However, here's this game that looks very similar and is better for you". If I currently enjoy playing and do so regularly Vintage, what makes you think I want my entire format changed like that? Once again, it might be better in the long run, but if a company tells me that I can no longer play something I currently enjoy, but substitutes it with something else, I'm probably not going to want to play that something else.
Why do you think alienating a large portion of your player base is a good idea with massive sweeping changes? You do not enjoy the current Vintage play-patterns but that does not mean everybody shares this opinion. And simply looking at the players who show up to Vintage Challenges does not suggest that Vintage is in any way unhealthy relative to recent times.
Also, Vintage as a format is special. Simply because the DCI has attempted to police how un-fun certain cards are in other formats does not mean they should do so to the same level in Vintage. Vintage is home to strategies that no longer exist anywhere else because WOTC has decided those strategies are unfun, such as Prison. Implementing the same policies of other formats removes these strategies (as it has already done with Workshops no longer being a real prison deck).
I am not going to discuss the specific restrictions because I disagree with the fundamental premise that Vintage is in a bad place and requires "spring cleaning". By extension, I do not think power level bans have a place in Vintage at all.
EDIT: A little tidbit I found. You say that having a small restricted list is not the goal of the DCI. However, please check out this link: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/august-28-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-08-28
As we observe the Vintage metagame evolve, we also re-evaluate cards already restricted to see if they might be safe to unrestrict. With Vintage, one of our guiding philosophies is to let players play with as many cards as possible—it's the only sanctioned format where cards like the Power Nine and Library of Alexandria are legal, after all. We discussed two cards as candidates for unrestriction: Yawgmoth's Bargain and Windfall. Since these cards were restricted, other more powerful draw engines have been introduced, such as Griselbrand and Paradoxical Outcome.
Above statement clearly shows that the DCI does indeed care about the size of the restricted list and endeavors to make it as small as possible. A massive spring cleaning and restriction frenzy would be opposed to such a goal, let alone a banning frenzy.
Its probably easier to leave the mulligan rule as is for eternal formats than have to deal with multiple rounds of bannings/restrictions before they got this right.
While this might true, I think in the long run it's probably not a good thing if different formats follow different basic rules of MTG!
You know, all I said was that the hate bears that need to be printed need to not be so binary in their function and they become more interesting to play against for me.
Resistors are examples of interesting hate because there are multiple ways to deal with it. I like playing against resistors as it promotes interesting gameplay. It taxes and slows you down, but is usually symmetrical and you are still able to play your cards and attempt to execute your gameplan, albeit slower. I enjoyed playing against workshops very much, even when it taxes my deck to defeat. Similarly, Thalia is just as interesting to play against, in my opinion.
On the flipside, cards that say "your opponent cannot do X" is on the other end of the spectrum and extremely boring to play against. If such a card is effective, it usually shuts down a deck from functioning till you can remove it. Worse, sometimes there cards aren't even symmetrical effects.
Once again this is simply my opinion. I dont understand how this went to talking about social classes and all that when I simply expressed my preferences and what I enjoy when playing magic. This has nothing to do with wanting change or not wanting change. I'm happy to see more Vintage relevant cards being printed, but I wish they were less binary in their function. Of course this card has already been printed and I'll have to deal with it one way or the other, but it doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy it.