Have people not considered this for Hermit Druid decks? With the new Mulligan rule and this, getting a turn one Hermit (especially with 4-8 Guides) seems very strong.
I play a Hermit druid deck, and I'll be testing some number of these. Hermit druid decks can already mulligan aggressively, so I see this card as an interesting option.
What’s crazy is restricting Mystic Forge and expecting to have any lasting impact. You are band-aiding the real problem in that Vintage manabases are too consistently powerful.
Workshops can consistently drop a 4 CC spell on turn 1/2. Dredge can consistently mulligan to a single card and then hit creatures on its first dredge. Blue can consistently fix a 3 or 4 color manabase with basics. These break fundamental balancing rules that cards are printed with in mind now as none of these mechanics are returning.
What will be printed is another Mystic Forge.
While you’ve provided an explanation, your reasoning is going in so many directions I can’t even follow your logic.
1.) Why would you restrict Narcomoeba? Your primary argument is restricting mana bases.
2.) I am confused by “blue can consistently fix a 3 or 4 color mana base...” If I assume you mean decks that are built primarily using blue cards, I still don’t understand your explanation. Every deck can utilize mana fixing/fetching if needed. If you are specifically mentioning blue because of the powerful blue cards that have been printed, that’s why we have a restricted list. If your original argument is that the restricted list is a band-aid and the mana bases are the real problem, then would it be fine if WOTC printed another Ancestral Recall or Demonic Tutor with restricted dual lands?
3.) That last point bring me to my final area of confusion: to which fundamental balancing rules are you referring?
I'd also like to add that I've been in scenarios when I've had to hard-cast Griselbrand. This would be delayed because I needed to build to the BBBB color requirement. Vilis, however, is slightly easier to hard-cast because of the BBB requirement (I'm looking at you, Black Lotus.)
Not that this is a reason for me to play this card over Griselbrand (or to even play it along with Griselbrand,) but it's something to consider.
Great show, as usual! The number of powerful and interesting cards in Modern Horizons is staggering.
One small note: In the introduction to Hogaak, Kevin correctly states the casting cost of 5 B/G B/G, but then when he's evaluating the card he incorrectly identifies that you need creatures that are "....either black or red."
This errors leads you to the response that it's difficult to cast in Survival builds, because of the restrictive red requirement.
However, because it's black or green, I think the cards is much better in Survival than was evaluated in the podcast.
@thewhitedragon69 I'm pretty sure Narset does much more than Chains. She doesn't "only" impede drawing (which I contend is a bigger impediment than you're presuming,) but she also offers exceptional card selection, sometimes chaining into another Narset.
Narset allows you to see 8 cards into the deck (with two activations,) while at the same time inhibiting the opponent's draws.
I am currently testing this card on MTGO, and it's been fantastic so far! I'm not sure if I should call my deck Storm with Belcher, or Belcher with Storm, but it's both.
It's essentially a storm shell, with no Bargain, and 3-4 Bolas's Citadel. I'm currently using Land Grant, a singleton Bayou, and Tolarian Academy.
I can't post a list because it's been changing multiple times each day, but I will say that the deck (and Bolas's Citadel) have far exceeded my expectations, in every aspect.
@protoaddct No, I don't have a completely transformation sideboard. I bring in 4x Hollow One, 1-3 Mindbreak Trap, and leave in all the Creeping Chill. I usually board out a dredger or two, some number of Unmask (0, 1, or 2 depending,) and the dread return package.
Opponents usually over-board against dredge, so the combination of hollow one and creeping chill is pretty strong. If the opponent blinks early (cracks a tormod's crypt too soon, etc,) I'll dredge for value to get some Bloodghasts on the field (usually hasty due to Hollow swings + creeping chill damage.)
If the opponent is super aggressive with grave hate (crypt, cage in multiples, et. al.,) I don't really mind because I've boarded out the dread return package anyway and eventually I'll just hardcast some narcomoeba or thug, or whatever else.
Edit: Keep in mind that crypt will exile the creeping chill and prevent the trigger from resolving, which can be annoying.
I've been using 4x in my dredge deck. It's great! Yes, a bit disappointing to see in your opening hand, but that's part of the risk of running the card.
I run 4x Hollow One in the board. That in combination with Creeping Chill makes for a very strong post-board game.
My favorite Gifts pile is one I currently use in my Acadmey Rector deck. I run 2 Gifts maindeck. This pile requires omniscience in play:
Gifts, Emrakul, Demonic, X (usually a value card of some sort.)
Omniscience makes it all free. If they don’t give you Emrakul, you can just find it again because it will go to GY and be re-shuffled.
The loop can go forever because if they give you Gifts and X, the other Gifts (the one you just cast) is re-shuffled with Emrakul, and you can just repeat the same pile again.
@moorebrother1 I'll usually Hurkyl's on the opponent's end step, unless of course they're swinging for lethal. I very much dislike casting Hurkyl pre-end step because they usually just re-deploy everything.
If I'm playing a deck with a white splash (or heavy white,) I'll sideboard out all of my missteps and flusters. I'll side in Swords to Plowshares and Disenchants, and I'll bring in any extra Hurkyl's. I also like Energy Flux, but it sometimes feels a bit slow and sometimes it misses the mark (they have enough mana to pay for creatures when presenting lethal, etc.)
I meant for the land tap mana cost; "Prior" would make more sense.
I could see confusion where the first point of mana would be the normal type and amount, then mana 2+ (other) is just (C).
If a land taps to produce 1+X amount of mana (of any color or colorless), it produces C instead.
If a land does A, instead it does B. The whole A clause is replaced, so “other” can’t apply to part of A (because A no longer exists, it has been replaced by B)
Guys, the sky isn't falling. People were underprepared for Workshops. Yes, something probably needs to be restricted, but in the Article I'll be writing I will be writing a clear argument that it is NOT Mishra's Workshop.
Culprits: Phyrexian Revoker, Foundry Inspector, Walking Ballista, Arcbound Ravager.
Those will all be cards I talk about. Relax though, and have a good sideboard plan, and we'll get through the Shop Dominance.
I don't think anybody is panicking (e.g. "the sky isn't falling.") Shops variants have been a large portion of the meta for years now. Whether or not people are "prepared" to play against workshops is a tangential issue. The main concern, as you alluded to with your culprits, is that Shops decks are improving at a faster pace relative to other pillars of the format.
Cut a head off the hydra (restrict a card), and two more grow in it's place. Newer, better, more aggressive cards continue to be printed. The acceleration of shops is outpacing the restrictions.
I've occasionally played RG Belcher in vintage. It's fun, fast, and fragile.The majority of my wins are from Empty the Warrens. The fun part of playing a belcher deck is that you have to carefully sequence your spells so that you end up with just enough mana for your end goal (either belcher or Emtpy,) while dodging/baiting countermagic.
But what exactly does the possibility of 4x Bargain add to this format? Does drawing 12-19 cards and killing someone on the spot add dimension to this format? Is that "fun" for more than one of the two players involved in a game?
Adding more combo decks to the format does indeed add dimension (depth.) You strategically omitted the sequenced lines of play that lead to "drawing 12-19 cards and killing someone on the spot..." You have to accelerate into a Bargain (surpassing missteps and counters,) then carefully sequence the cards you draw so that you avoid (or bait) countermagic and then find your kill condition (most likely tendrils.)
Combo decks, especially of the older variety, are notoriously challenging to pilot.
@poxeveryturn said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:
Well it looks like white gets another 1W options against us. lol.
Dredge can play moderately well without having to cast dread return. However, it does make Cabal Therapy much less effective. But it also doesn't prevent dredging. A bit of a mixed bag, but yes it's yet another option in the W toolkit.