@serracollector said in How to beat Paradoxical Outcome:

Don't things like Stony Silence and Knight of Reliquary and Mayor of Averbrook all give good advantage vs MUD as well tho? If your splashing green that is. Not to mention abrupt Decay, swords to plow, path to exile, assassin's trophy, fragmentize, and nature's claim all out the board or maindeck?

They do (except for Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy as they're too slow), and believe me I've tried all of that and much more. I've had builds that brought in 15 cards against Shops post-board, and games 2 and 3 are still not favorable. I've played 4 Serenity and 4 Seeds of Innocence post-board and games 2 and 3 are still not favorable.

The Shops matchup was much better when Lodestone Golem was unrestricted.

Anyway, we're probably getting a bit off topic here, so perhaps we should save this discussion for another thread?

@moorebrother1 said in How to beat Paradoxical Outcome:

@griselbrother The idea that Null Rod or Stony Silence solves the artifact problem is not going to work out the way it used to. These decks and the good pilots that run them expect these cards now.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. And you're right that the PO decks played now are much more resiliant than the first iterations of the deck. I remember when the deck first came out, people would say "Man, if you just didn't have that turn 1 Stony Silence, I would win", and I would response by saying "No, if you don't win turn 1, I win".

Still, PO is not that hard to beat if you play some sort of hatebear decks packing some combination of Stony Silence, Thalia 1.0, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Gaddock Teeg, Kambal, Sanctum Prelate etc. And the good news is that those cards are also good vs most other decks in the format, but the bad news is that they are horrible against Shops and you're simply not gonna win against Shops no matter what you do.

I'm pretty confident that you could build a hatebear style deck that has a favorable matchup against the field except for against Shops (and Eldrazi but that deck has almost disappeared now) where you'll have like 25%.

@serracollector said in How to beat Paradoxical Outcome:

How about Chains of Mephistophles? Obv not good vs mud/dredge, but seems good versus most of the meta, especially PO. Could a BW aggro deck with X Chains/X Stony Silence/X Bob's/X Thalias/X Kambal be somewhere to start?

That would be fine if you want to beat PO. But again, you just auto lose to Shops. I realise that's not the question here, but you have to have other matchups in mind as well.

Paradoxical is pretty easy to beat, if you're willing to play white cards (Stony Silence, Thalia 1.0, Spirit of the Labyrinth) but the problem is that it's impossible to beat Shops with such a build.

If you want to deploy a mana denial strategy, land destruction is outclassed by taxing effects. The reason being that destroying a land takes away 1 and only 1 mana, while a taxing effect takes away n mana, where n is the number of spells cast.

So basically Sphere effects are better than Sinkhole effects. If you want more Wasteland effects, I would turn towards Ghost Quarter rather than Assassin's Trophy.

@moorebrother1 said in Mono Blue Paradoxical Outcome:

Mystic Remora is now a card played in Outcome so this really pushes me to think that this deck can and almost should be mono blue. I have a build that I am messing around with and Karn is main deck and you need at least 3 - 4 different types of bounce spells.

How many counters should a deck like this run? I have stuck with 4 FOW and no more but as mono blue I think you need 2 Flusterstorms. Also, I cut Mental Misstep entirely even though I run 4 Preordain. I am of the mind that if you want to was a slot to stop a cantrip - so be it.

Why should it be mono blue? What do you gain by keeping the deck one color?

@nungnum said in Question for fun: What card from Alpha-Dark could be restricted someday? (e.g. What ancient cards have an undiscovered power level.):

I feel like, one card that has the potential to be insane in the right environment is City in a Bottle, prepare your phones fore much googling. Karakas is a way better suggestion though.

City in a Bottle has actually already seen some sideboard play.

@wappla said in LCV September -21 Players - Top16 Decklists:

@griselbrother said in LCV September -21 Players - Top16 Decklists:

Well, Mentor is probably the best card ever printed, so it's no surprise. It really should be banned. And I'm very liberal in regards to the banned/restricted list.

best card ever not modern playable confirmed

I only play Vintage and I don't even know what Modern is. Perhaps when I posted on this Vintage board I should have been more clear that I was refering to a Vintage context.

Well, Mentor is probably the best card ever printed, so it's no surprise. It really should be banned. And I'm very liberal in regards to the banned/restricted list.

I like the current metagame actually, and I don't think anything should be restricted at the moment. I really don't get why anyone would want Mental Misstep restricted in particular.

I would, however, like to see Channel, Imperial Seal, Mystical Tutor, Fastbond and Flash unrestricted. Probably a few more cards could come off the restricted list as well.