I really don't know how to make a format people will stop complaining about. It's tiresome to spend years walking in circles on this Misstep debate
I mean, is there even a way that people will stop complaining?Misstep gets restricted and I bet players just migrate to complain about another "aberration".
Seriously, what would be a good Vintage? Blue x Blue shenannigans? Everything Midrange? Rock-papers-scissors Modern? I really don't get it.
Please tell me ONE Vintage format you actually enjoyed and how it had 8 tier 1 decks like people seem to think we ever had.
@Khahan @revengeanceful My point is that you're betting your whole game on the fact that he doesn't have that 2nd Misstep in hand. If he does, the game is over for you. Maybe you are willing to take that risk, but I wouldn't. If you defend Top (which is what I'd probably do), your chances to find more permission on the next 1-2 turns are big, which will help you defend your Ancestral better in the future.
If he has 2 missteps and responds to your Fluster countering your Top, then that's 2 less missteps to screw with your Ancestral. This hand is built on Top or Ancestral resolving. If you get both countered (specially on a 1-to-1 basis, which mean by Misstep or Mindbreak), game is over. There's also a chance letting Top get countered and leaving Flusterstorm up so you don't lose to a big turn 1 from them is also a good play. I'd just not bet my whole game on him not having a counter for Ancestral.
I like the Ancestral plan but think it's best to wait and do it during the opponent's upkeep, to dodge Mindbreak Trap, since you've already used your land drop and are unlikely to draw into any immediate action (Mox + second Top, etc).
The chance of drawing your own Misstep makes Ancestral right now way better.
I feel like playing Ancestral there is just praying to get blown out though. A second Misstep means you just lost the game. I'd either let Misstep resolve or Fluster, probably Fluster. Depends if you know what you're playing against. Either way you're more likely to resolve Ancestral next turn.
@chubbyrain I like the overall idea. I also think that there are 2 possible hatebears builds now. Thalia Hate and Lavinia Hate. The thing I like about shifting to Lavinia is that She allows you to play spells Thalia never really did. Misstep, Ancestral, PWs. I think there's a lot of room to explore there and your list seems like a good first try.
The bare minimum for me is 2(one for untapped and 1 for tapped) I bring 2 Gideon tokens for Miracles in Legacy for example. But that's because Gideon rarely produces a bunch of tokens.
I bring some good 9-10 Monk tokens too, and that's in Legacy, where Mentor tends to get way less out of hand. Also 4-5 Angel tokens for Entreat the Angels.
I prefer to have a clean board state, and with large token generators like Mentor and Pyromancer things tend to get confusing and I prefer to have tokens for everything. Also helps your opponent concede because he can clearly see he's overwhelmed.
@gutocmtt the fact people treat the format competitively doesn't make it competitively IMO. But that depends on defining the term, I guess.
For me it's like: what incentive a profissional player has to play that format and take it seriously and train for it? None? Then it's not competitive.
I also played a lot of Commander in Brazil (we probable know each other right?) and although a lot of people treated the format in a highly competitive manter, I'd never call it competitive, not even in its glory days. The most you could do with your Commander "grind/career" was win some local tournaments and maybe a "national" that only contained people from 1/20 of the country once in a while.
Vintage always leaned in between those lines. You cannot judge a format's competitiveness out of its interactions IMO. I played a bunch of 1x1 Commander over the years and that format is NOT competitive - but has all the qualities people here think competitive formats have. I for one believe that if you never take out your DCI and if we almost never have official supported tournaments, you cannot call a format competitive. It's mostly casual.
Have in mind that all of this could have changed this year the moment Wizards announced Vintage can be used to qualify to the Pro Tour. I guess that bumped a bunch of casual formats to competitive status.