Git Probe might be one of the weakest cards in the deck, but that's saying a lot. The card is completely fool proof. If you draw it in your opener there is a 100% chance that the right thing to do is cast it. It's a free roll for the cost of what amounts to nothing and the information you get removes all skill from the game. "Herp derp, no Force? Oh that sucks for you, game over. ". Or, "oh, you got 2x Force and a bunch of action, guess I should hold off for a few turns and find my Flusterstorm first." That's not what Magic should be about. Probe is the least skill demanding card ever printed. Yes, ever printed.
Is it just me, or has Vintage turned into a microcosm of this election? Or is it visa versa?
Anyway, Blue decks need Misstep to fight other Blue decks, lest you get blown out by a full grip from you opponent after they go Ponder, Probe, Mox, Gush, Brainstorm on turn 3 or 4 with a Mentor and 5 Monk tokens. Probe is also an issue because perfect information tacked to a free cantrip is more powerful than most of you want to admit. Turn 1 Probe... oh, no Force? OK, gg. Probe turns a thinking man's game into a brainless format. Misstep is a necessary evil to fight that nonsense. Restrict them both and I bet Blue decks open up and can simultaneously improve the shops matchup.
at this point of the discussion I think we've hit the proverbial wall. No one is open minded enough to change their opinion. Hemming and hawing about Force of Will and Smokestack and whatever else is pointless. Time will tell if Workshop will be a viable strategy or not; no amount of hyperbole or corner case examples will change that. Let's just go out there and play some Vintage!
I am absolutely flabbergasted that the two most oppressively over priced cards on MTGO were not included in this set. There is zero reason those cards should be as ridiculously priced as to be more expensive than all the Power 9. Now, their prices will go up even higher. Dumb move on WotC's part. But then again, I shouldn't be too surprised by their ineptitude.
@HouseOfCards I don't disagree that we should have a platform to discuss such things, but doing it on the (now) weekly MTGO Vintage Challenge metagame report isn't really the place to have such a discussion. There should be (and already is) other threads on the matter.
Great card that is done in by not having
Much synergy with the card best used to cast multicolor creatures, Cavern of Souls. If this was a human or wizard/spirit/Eldrazi/Merfolk/etc, it would be a Vintage staple. Being an Elf Advisor really puts a damper on how much play this will see.
@desolutionist So there's no possibility that the lack of CN2 on MTGO affected the results as many people can't test outside of the few that have play groups and those that use cockatrice? How many people even tried Leovold in testing?
I also think that Paradoxical Outcome has rejuvenated people's hope that Storm can make a real comeback. Likely a lot of people went straight into finding the best PO deck and skipped over Leovold. Maybe that view is wrong, but I saw very few Leovold decks. Jaco was on 2 card Monte with Daretti Iconoclast though.
I don't know, the guy is still just a 4/4. That doesn't seem too impressive on its own. Remember that Myr guy that cost 2 if you played a spell? That never saw play and that was a 5/6. I think we need to be doing a lot more than putting 4/4's on the battlefield to make it viable in this format. Casual all star for sure though.
Misstep ... makes games more interesting, not less.
Did you really type that with a straight face? Interesting? Hardly. So, I'm supposed to play this stupid card over Swords just because I should be building my deck with better "strategy" in a world of Misstep:
Why can't people just admit the card is stupid? And why are we comparing it to FoW? Force has a real liability to it... you are creating card disadvantage when you cast FoW for free. Misstep is a perfect 1 for 1 that is tempo positive (they spend mana and you don't). There is zero cost to the card and it's truly a feel bad moment when your opponent Missteps your Misstep as you try to remove their win con from the table with a Bolt/Plow/Pyroblast or catch back up with a Recall. It's a miserable play experience to continually account for it's presence in opponent's decks. If you need a Plow to resolve to not lose a game, you almost always have to think to yourself, I need Plow AND a Misstep to win this game. How is that reasonable?
@bazaarofbaghdad So we substitute it for an unrestricted herp-derp card that has wide ranging reach far beyond Ancestral? Sounds like a good trade off to me. Let's not pretend that there weren't measures to stop Ancestral. Could you get blown out by an Ancestral? Of course, that was part of Vintage. Same with Tinker, Yawgwill, Time Walk, etc. There used to be a lot of answers to Ancestral... Duress, Pyroblast, REB, Misdirection, and so on. Misstep wasn't needed to control Ancestral. The collateral damage that Misstep has caused vastly outweighs whatever saving grace might have been implemented to prevent Ancestral blowouts. Let's unrestrict Strip Mine to make sure we have enough answers to Library of Alexandria while we're at it?
@Aaron-Patten There was a Classic player (precursor to Vintage on MTGO) that played Birthing Pod and Workshop. He called it Mishra's Afterbirth, but everyone else wanted to call it Pod Shops. Anyway, it interestingly enough played only 1 Golem: (http://www.mtgoacademy.com/playing-the-unplayable-mishras-afterbirth-in-a-classic-de/)
MTGO team has said they want to find some way to bring CN2 cards online
The fact that they don't have an actual plan right now just shows how inept they are. The set is released in 2 days in paper and we have absolutely no idea when these cards will make it online. This should've been planned months ago. It's not like CN2 wasn't in development for a while now.
With some more time to think about this card, here are some advantages/disadvantages I'm observing:
- It's kind of like a recurring cascade with an upside to just keep drawing cards if you play a Mox or something.
- It works on each turn. Cast a counterspell on your opponents turn? Get a card. If that spell is a FoW, then reveal and put Leovold into play for free? That seems like some serious value.
- 3 Toughness is really hard to embrace.
- Mana cost is also kind of high, but it can be supported with Moxen and DRS, which is also an Elf.
- Gush being 5 mana opens a ton of doors for value, not to mention filling your hand and leaving you mana to boot.
I look forward to giving this card a try in non-White Blue decks... maybe even with Gush. Kiora 1.0 might have a new friend. Vintage playable? Perhaps not, but it looks fun as heck to play.