Don't we still have to max spheres? I think the 4 SoR and 1 Thorn is probably the baseline now along with Tanglewires, the list that are just trying to race popcorn look like Hurkylls blow outs to me without beaing fast enough to really race Outcome decks. I don't think there is anything wrong with going small, but I think we still have to max out disruption.

I went from kitchen table to Vintage in the late 90's. I started buying packs at the end of Revised and was able to get into a decent amount of the staples for cheap. It took me just over a decade to get fully powered, I bought my first card, a Mox Jet in probably 98 or 99 and I got the last card, a Time Walk in 2012 or so.

I thought Gush was a fine choice in shops metagame because it could transform so well between a blue deck that won counter wars with FoW X4 MM X4 Fluster X2 MisD X2 that could then sideboard into Mountain plus 7 Red Artifact Destruction cards. The shops deck post Lodestone could still beat that deck in general until Treasure Cruise/DTT gave them a drawing answer to sphere effects, once those cards got restricted then Shops started to dominate to the point that the DCI felt Lodestone had to go. Now as we things evolve we'll see about the future of Gush. I think its hard to talk about Gush decks over the last two years or so because they have mainly been Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time Decks, and those tempo shells I think beat Big Blue without much stress especially the aggro Treasure Cruise decks. in some of those deck in particular Gush was run as a two of to round out TC and DTT engines. Hopefully the shops players will find a redesign that gives them some real space in this meta, if not maybe gush has to go. We'll see, but with Vintage I don't take anything seriously until six months post restriction as we tend to move slowly and don't have a huge player base.

I'll take a crack at it, but 4 Ankh of Mishra and 4 Ancient Tomb in the same deck just feels scary.

I think we'd find room for it in the 75,no arguing there, I may even side in an entire playset in some must just because I know my opponent is bringing in 7-8 pieces of hate for me. But the deck would still start with 4 LSG then worry about the Thought-Knots. Maybe 2 main 2 side? That would be pretty sick:)

@oestrus Your not wrong. As a shops player I keep wondering when the blue players will just build the blue deck that beats shops, ie Oath or Landstill. They aren't hard to find. Maybe is MM was restricted we see this transformation? The blue decks seem kind of pushed into a weird space where outside of guys like Brian Kelley everyone is scared to play Oath and have a better shops mu. This Jan will be very interesting:)

Roland shows up, you sacrifice a bunch of permanents, then he leaves:)

Note I deleted this out of the Tournament Results tab and re-copied it in here, this seems to be the better home for reports:)

I looked at the four copies of Lodestone Golem and said, I'll keep the one that the tear drops fall on, and put him into my deck and shuffled up a Forgemaster list for this Denton unlimited proxy event.

We had 25 show and set up for a solid if not slightly squishy five rounder. We had some cats down from Oklahoma City, thanks for making the drive and we had a few others from out of town, thanks for finding the time. We plan on doing more and we're going to give streaming a shot at the next one.

First off the List:

Lands
Mishra's Workshop X4
Ancient Tomb X4
Wasteland X4
Mishra's Factory X4
City of Traitors X2
Tolarian Academy X1
Stripmine X1

SoLolMoxCrypt X8

Disruption:
Tanglewire X4
Sphere of Resistance X4
Thorn of Amethyst X4
Chalice of the Void X1
Trinisphere X1

Creatures
Phyrexian Revoker X4
Kuldotha Forgemaster X4
Phyrexian Metamorph X3
Wurmcoil Engine X2
Steel Hellkite X2
Lodestone Golem X1 (soaked in tears from all the sad)
Duplicant X1
Sundering Titan X1

Round 1: I crush the BYE like a boss, honestly it never had a chance.

Round 2: Steel City Vault
I get the match in 2 but each game I am within one turn of death when I get a Hellkite out that destroys part of his board. I think even post restriction, we are a little slower, but still have too much disruption to fall behind in this mu.

Round 3: Gush Mentor
I lose in 3 having lost the critical game one to a flood. These guys still bring in a lot and the high curve commitments got me in trouble. If one of my Ancient Tombs is a City of Traitors in game three I may get there, I stabilize the board with a Wurmcoil at 4 life and he double blots me. Very close. I think Martello is just a lil ahead game one here and then behind games 2/3, if you can win game one and go first game 3 the MU still feels very close to even. My opponent goes on to top4 the event.

Round 4: Landstill
I lose in 3, this mu wasn't great before the restriction and seems only worse now. I got in some trouble with wastelands and a maindeck Stony Silence game 1, game 2 I get a decent lock going with crucible waste and resolve a Titan to solve some of the basics. Game3 I have a risky turn 1 Lodestone which I keep, my opponent mulls to six, but has the Force. I draw nothing and he gets an energy flux down and that's it. That may have been too greedy, not really sure how best to play this mu in the current meta, but I feel like Martello is behind here. My opponent here goes on to top 4 the event as well.

Round 5: Its a clean break for the top 8 so I play a meaningless round vs a nice dude from OKC on Omnitel, I get there in 2 and I improve to ninth.

Thoughts on the future of Shops:

I think Martello is a dead end in the current metagame and B/R environment. Lodestone and Metamorph really got you to Forgemaster and without them coming together nicely I just feel like Big Robots in legacy, sure you can overwhelm people, but you are super soft to waste effects and pass too many turns without playing anything. That being said, a 2-2 finish in matches played and taking both my losses to close 3 games tells me that shops will survive this cruel blow. Next up for me is experimenting with Ravager builds. If those suck we may have to look at some dedicated control shell, blow the dust of the smokestacks, put three tabs in the main for those annoying tokens and just grind like a student driver with a double clutch.

That's a fate I'm hoping we call avoid, long live Ravager:)

We'll the next event when it gets closer and we'd love to make Dallas the proxy vintage capital of the southwest:)

regards,
defector

I like the old pillar idea, that solves 80% of the trouble and then have a Misc Blue, Misc Hate Bears or some generic threads like that?

I really just completely missed the PW:) I don't think we can run Workshop and then try to cast things that don't abuse it. If they ever print a PW that is "artifact PW" then I'll test it, until then I don't think its worth it. You get awkward hands when you mix mana types and doing it in a deck that can't fix its top decks, can't manipulate its library, can't fetch its lands, there are a lot of design constraints that really hamper those plans.

I put Karn in and take him out and put him. He's amazing in that he does finish games, almost like a combo deck would, he can be pretty lackluster elsewhere, and with 4 null rods main its a touch annoying to hold him forever. I am really on the fence about him.

Its not a bad idea:)

Well you convinced me to get a playset of Orrerys today:) I don't know if its correct but I want some for testing. It's a very interesting card and maybe there is a Shops-Lands future, it looks like Horn of Greed and Exploration in one card, which should be amazing:) This is what I am currently working on, but I don't have any play in my area, and I'm not on MTGO so I have no idea how bad it is:

Lands:
Workshop X4
Tomb X4
Wasteland X4
Port X4
Inventors Fair X1
Dune of the Dead X1
Stripmine*
Tolarian Academy*

Artifact Acceleration:
Moxen* X5
Sol Ring*

Creatures:
Darksteel Juggernaut X2
Lodestone Golem*

Artifact Control:
Tanglewire X4
Sphere of Resistance X4
Null Rod X4
Sorcerous Spyglass X4
Ensnaring Bridge X4
Smokestack X4
Crucible of Worlds X3
Bottled Cloister X2
Thorn of Amethyst*
Chalice of the Void*
Trinisphere*

Sideboard:
Grafdigger's Cage X4
Tabernacle X3
Witchbane Orb X3
Ratchet Bomb X3
Wurmcoil Engine X2

I'm not pretending Witchbane Orb is actually good, but when 5 of the top 8 decks at Waterbury run 4 Hurkylls and Oath is still a tough MU it can't be that bad:) The deck plays like a complete pile sometimes, but when it synergizes its a hard lock. Its def short of being optimized though and maybe the new Traxos agro is just better, but I feel like this deck should beat that. IDK, this is my rough draft where I've started from. I want to experiment with Orrerry in it, I think maybe the key to making Smokestack good again is getting it to two. I feel like with the token generators and pws that we need to find a way to leverage more value out of that card.

That's a very interesting list. How do you actually win with it? Is lodestone and revokers the only victory conditions in the deck? Congrats on the VSL pick up that's awesome:)

I've been leaning hard in a pure Stax direction as well. I'm not in love with the Ravager decks and I have a weird feeling that what we saw at Waterbury recently may be a critical turning point in the current metagame where the Xerox decks and Outcome decks have found out how to beat the aggro shops decks. That being said, I don't know the right formula for traditional stax. I'm really struggling with victory conditions. I like the ports, but thinking of doing a 2/2 Port/Factory plan with a Dunes of the Dead as a third land that you can win with. I think the deck has to be a four Null Rod deck to make it competitive with Outcome and Aggro Shops. I'm still in the lab, but as we get closer to EW or I get something concrete I'll get a list up.

@oestrus Your not wrong. As a shops player I keep wondering when the blue players will just build the blue deck that beats shops, ie Oath or Landstill. They aren't hard to find. Maybe is MM was restricted we see this transformation? The blue decks seem kind of pushed into a weird space where outside of guys like Brian Kelley everyone is scared to play Oath and have a better shops mu. This Jan will be very interesting:)

Thanks for the breakdown! It def looks like shops needs a hit or maybe two, just hoping the preserve the workshop and maybe whack Ravager and Inspector, love my shops and don't really love playing affinity:) Anyway, we'll see in a couple months.

So beat it or join it: http://eemagic.com/allDecks.php. I guess the only big thing I see here is that I miss my Tangle Wires:) Why the meta hasn't generated easy/obvious answers to Precursor golem has me confused, other than that the creature suites look pretty strong.

The first significant data point of the new meta: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/vintage-challenge-2017-09-03. Shops looks pretty OK there, but much to think about:) More tomorrow I'm out for tonight:)