whitedragon never did anything banworthy either, just slowly, consistently, annoys people away from the site
You win a challenge with Uro, but no one enters it into MTGtop8, SMIP doesn't list it on their scorecard, and it's like it doesn't happen. SMH.
Joking aside, I think this card has significant Modern and perhaps Legacy implication, but for Vintage, the delay in drawing a card is pretty significant. You can kind of compare it to Serum Visions and Preordain if you've ever played Visions like in the VSL lists - scrying into the counterspell/Dredge hate/piece of Power you need and not being able to cast it is rough. A Preordain restriction would be interesting for the format as the remaining cantrips are much more flawed because of this (not advocating for it, but it's true based on my play experience).
You can also rent cards using manatraders (which I believe you can do using tix though someone who uses their service would know better than me), have access to several Vintage decks, and actually play the game.
I feel that is better advice to give to someone who came here looking to get into Vintage rather than telling them to buy Sui Chis....
I think your question is an interesting one (for reference, it was regarding whether budget decks could be more successful and significant portions of the vintage metagame if picked up by skilled Vintage players).
Speaking as a general principle, the odds of having a restricted card in a 7 card hand is 11.6%. Depending on the deck, you are typically giving up at least 2-4 restricted cards (Lotus and on-color Mox for non-Blue decks, these plus Ancestral and Time Walk for Blue decks like Delver/Landstill). That ends up being 22.1% to 39.9% of hands that you are sacrificing the ability to have one of these very powerful cards. If you consider mulligans, additional draws throughout the game, and that with the London mulligan, you are always seeing 7 cards (and so these percentages are constant throughout the mulligan process), that ends up being a substantial impact on your matches. When there is no structural incentive to make this deckbuilding change, you are highly advantaged to include Power.
I would also challenge the notion that the players running budget decks are unskilled or that the decks traditionally considered budget have a high enough ceiling. Players new to the format might have experience with Eldrazi, Delver, Merfold, or other budget options from Legacy - and their knowledge of Magic as a game might be higher than some Vintage players based on the more competitive play in other formats. These decks have Powered variants and you find that those Powered versions are not substantially stronger in the metagame compared to the unPowered versions. It normally boils down to some structural disadvantage that hurts the viability of the deck.
To expand with some of my experience in collecting Vintage data, Vintage Champ from several years ago showed that Eldrazi, whether Powered or unPowered, White or Colorless/Jaco, struggled against Workshop decks. I believe the win rates were sub-20%. The intrinsic disadvantage was the manabase as Workshops produced more mana that could cast more relevant spells than Eldrazi and the Aggro variants could better leverage the tempo of their Spheres and Wastelands. Eldrazi could steal games with Null Rod and Thalia, Heretic, but percentage-wise it wasn't enough.
The problems have been compounded recently. Workshop decks have gotten better threats in Stonecoil and Golos, but also Bazaar, which used to be very exploitable by budget decks as they typically thrived on Wastelands and hate, are typically outclassed by the clock from Hollow One and Co. Power in the form of Moxen and Lotus becomes necessary to compete with Tempo advantages of Bazaar and Workshop. Again, I draw on my own experience brewing with Humans and Maverick. You want the possibility of those Lotus/Moxen hands for when the opponent has double Hollow One starts or Sphere draws that you can't get out of by playing a land a turn.
Vintage Unleashed League
Please note that the B&R list and match structure for this event is different than that used by Team Serious. The Power 9, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, and Tolarian Academy are the only cards restricted. Don't run Gleemox - it says on the card that it's banned.
Event Type: League play consisting of five best-of-3 matches. Decks may changed between matches.
Dates: 12/26/20 - 1/3/20
Platform: Magic Online
Format: Vintage Unleashed
- Ancestral Recall
- Black Lotus
- Mana Crypt
- Mox Emerald
- Mox Jet
- Mox Pearl
- Mox Ruby
- Mox Sapphire
- Sol Ring
- Time Walk
- Tolarian Academy
- Cards not available on Magic Online
Matches will be organized on the Vintage Streaming Community Discord - discord.gg/2eVcsjK
The Magic Online Terms of Service and Code of Conduct prohibits the running of events requiring and entry fee. As such, the prize pool will consist of donations and everything collected will be returned in prizes to those who finish 3-2 or higher in the league. The tournament organizer (i.e. me) is not eligible for prizes. Donations are not expected or required - the purpose of this event is to promote an awesome new format and have as much participation as possible. If you need to borrow cards to participate, please let me know and I will do the best I can to accommodate you.
My contact information:
@chubby_rain1 on Twitter
chubbyrain#6461 on Discord
chubbyrain1 on TheManaDrain.com
The 2 most popular camps before seemed to be restricted and unplayable so h0w do you feel.
That seems problematic as the vast majority of cards discussed during spoiler season are neither restriction worthy or are they truly unplayable.
Hullbreacher has been right where I thought it would be, worse that Narset, better than Notion Thief/Spirit of the Labyrinth, good though hardly a candidate for restriction.
@ten-ten Comments like this aren't going to lead to more Vintage content, especially since this was probably not a cost-effective use of Justin's time, and more something he did for the community. If you weren't a particular fan, constructive criticism is going to get you more of the content you're interested in while still being respectful to the time and effort Justin invested in the coverage.
I for one find it funny that people spend their time and energy complaining about this awesome article by @IamActuallyLvL1 but, as a community, say almost nothing about Andreas Petersen being DQ'ed for Bribery.
What is there to say?
This was one of the least controversial DQs of all time and it's good that Andreas and the other person were held accountable. There's no real question of sleight of hand or sloppy play or marked cards. Literal video evidence, plus the damning tweet. It was disconcerting that some people thought that because this happens "all the time" it's ok, but I think most people were just waiting to see what would happen and were happy to see justice and the 2nd place person get the painting.
If there is one topic worth discussing, it's that MTGO used to pair like in paper during the final round with the 1 seed playing the 2 seed, the 3 seed playing the 4 seed, and so on, unless they already played. They scrapped this when they went to daily events, which awarded prizes based on record and didn't care about seeding (so it was unfair to make top seeds play - you were actually penalizing people for having good tiebreakers by making them play other people with good tiebreakers for the same prizes as people with lower tiebreakers). In top X events, tiebreakers are relevant but if you have random pairings in the end, you get an unequal incentive to play in the last round where one player might be playing for top 8 and one player playing for play points. Returning to power pairings makes for more similar incentives and decreases the likelihood of this happening.
To be clear, MTGO's flaws doesn't excuse bad behavior from players but fixing the system can certainly make bad behavior less likely.
@serracollector The issue is those effects are optional. Your opponent can decline to search. Field of Ruin is mandatory (I remember using it to disrupt topdeck tutors when I was fooling around with it in Vintage) but those are the type of effects you want to include.