I'm generally against Bans and Restrictions in any eternal format, this one is no exception. Mentor has been the most exciting and fun card Vintage has ever seen and now it's restricted. They've been hacking away at shops for years now, one day the tower will fall and shops will go from dominant to unplayable, maybe we are finally here. Personally I think shops is an important part of the Vintage meta and think it's tragic that they continue to pull it apart.
I don't care if a deck or card is dominant, to me that's what new cards are for, like Mentor was. Vintage is supposed to be broken and I'm sick of these bans. Grumble grumble grumble.

@cutlex Yep overlooked the word card.

@Shaman-Ben
Thanks for the link, I would like a section on TMD for Oldschool.

@Winterstar I really like Vintage how it is right now. I don't see a need for any more restrictions. All I want from vintage is a slow stream of new and playable cards.

Too bad Final Fortune, Last Chance, and Pact of Negation are still unplayable with this guy. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@mdkubiak said in SMIP # 65: Amokhet Vintage Set Review & B&R Fallout:

The concern I have about is this restriction seems to be more about outcry of people than actual data

I completely agree, I'm concerned that when they make restrictions based on the complaints it pits the community against each other.

@Brass-Man

I was previously calm and only now I'm upset! I felt the format was doing fine, and these restrictions are unnecessary. I see no need to weaken mentor decks when shops is just as powerful or even more powerful than mentor. I don't believe Sphere effects needed help, and I don't believe these restrictions will "Open up the metagame".

I'm really curious to know what the community thinks of this card. I'm fairly new to Vintage so I don't have a great way to start this thread. I can see this working with Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Dack Fayden, Bazaar of Baghdad, LED, JVP, etc., but I'm not sure if it actually fits into any decks, or allows anything degenerate enough to be Vintage Playable.

Update - I had no idea that this preview came from the "So many insane plays" podcast until after I made this post. Sorry about that: http://www.themanadrain.com/topic/1125/smip-podcast-64-amonkhet-preview-eternal-weekend-europe-and-a-restricted-mentor

Audio is much better in this episode, thanks.

What do you know about this store and sign?

Audio is much better in this episode, thanks.

What do you know about this store and sign?

Although it's been said already it feels increasingly important to state one's opinion on any B&R discussions. PO shouldn't be restricted. PO isn't dominant and there haven't been any good arguments for why it should be restricted (or banned).

@nucleosynth I have already seen the decklist, which means I should already know who played the deck and that was a dumb question to ask, but what I meant was I'd like to know more about how deck interacted in games against the rest of the meta. Basically I'd love to see a tournament report or primer for this deck.

I'd really like to know more about the "Mardu Planeswalkers" deck, do you remember much about the match? Do you know who played the deck?

@cutlex Yep overlooked the word card.

If a token goes to the graveyard it changes zones and once it's in the grave, then it ceases to exist. Wouldn't 'ceases to exist' imply the token was in the grave and left?

It's a stretch but "leave your graveyard" is strange wording. I can see how this would create infinite loops if you had something like Heartless Summoning in play which again makes me think this can't work with tokens hitting the grave.

110.5f A token that’s in a zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)

704.5d If a token is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.

Why make it 15 proxies? I don't see the point of limiting the number of proxies.

I've always wanted to see the Elemental Blast cycle finished like this:

White Elemental Blast - Counter target black spell, destroy target black permanent.
Black Elemental Blast - Counter target white spell, destroy target white permanent.
Green Elemental Blast - Counter target BLUE spell, destroy target BLUE permanent.

Thanks for writing this up, it was an enjoyable read