@nba84 I think this just goes to prove that the format isn't Fow vs Shops vs Combo. I play survival salad and I think once/if Outcome gets restricted decks decks like this will shine. That being said I played against a version of this today with me being on Survival Salad and had a much harder time vs this than regular Fow Leo decks. Your card's grinded better and it was nearly impossible to get advantage through your kill spells unlike at 2 for 1 with force.

@p3temangus I like glissa a ton. I played her in Jund Traverse in modern for eldrazi decks or anything with little removal and she is insane. Unlike balefu she doesn;t have CA but I guess not dying to pyroblast has some utility vs blue right?
I imagine her vs shops being very good in conjunction with null rod shutting down ballista and very good vs the other leo decks goyfs. Better than stix as she could block multiple times tho if they don't attack into strix that is irrelevant.

Edit: Basic land may not be a faux pas; I have played "budget" UR delver with delta's in place of tarns and still ran a basic mountain as drawing it was still very good vs shops.

Well shit guess I'm buying heirarchs. That 4c list @wfain looks what my list has evolved to minus the quellers and dorks seems real solid.

@thewhitedragon69 Thats a very different take as I said we avoid serum powder. we can have busted bazaar draws but we can play the long game and not just lose if we cant mull to bazaar. we also don't have to take up sideboard space with hollowones and gurmags as they are already mainboard.

Graf diggers is not a very good choice of grave hate it's worth mentioning leyline as that shuts down squee/bazaar as well as survival combo kills yet we can still pull thru. Grafdiggers we just cast decay or manglehorn as we can still fill our grave with impunity. The opponent didn't "not" do anything just that casting 2 mana preordains into 4 mana dack is great vs hollow one not vs hatebears.

@thewhitedragon69 Survival/bazaar decks got a massive upgrade with Hollow One. Not as consistently powerful as dredge but you can have a consistent 6-16 power on the board on turn 1 with a t1 bazaar activation and don't need to mull to oblivion or paly serum powder. You also have a back up plan of hatebears and goyf beats making mulling to dredge hate a very bad plan as we can just switch gears; I have won a game with t1 double leyline and a grafdiggers start by them but t1 thalia into t2 bob sealed the deal.

The deck chews up shops decks alive and has at least 50/50 shot at any "fair" control decks with oath being nigh unwinnable and PO storm a question of if we can be faster or more disruptive with it in their favor of t1 kills and tinker.

IMO welder is unplayable with all the gravehate and missteps and deathrites running amok and not to mention the deck he was amazing against always (Shops) now runs 4x ballista to ruin his day or run Eldrazi that can't be welded away.

@serracollector if you go jund I'Ve been wanting to try a version with 3 ancient grudes main and 4x squee and run a whole bunch of looting. probably worse vs gy hate but could be super explosive and grudges might help vs outcome and shops if we can destroy all the moxes and such.

Hey all 1 and 0 in the Vintage challenge vs shops. Game 1 t1 hollow one t2 bob with bazaar made for tons of CA ended the game by attacking with 4 VV 3 hollow ones and a tasigur. Game 2 he went double workshop into t1 birds into Energy flux backed up by a survival. (2-0)

Edit: Bob and Squee together solely won that game by letting me bazaar almost evry turn

match 2 game 2 top deck wonder with exactly lethal with me at 5 life facing down 2 thought-knot seer's. Good lord this deck is insane. (2-1)

Match 3 game 1 found nothing lost to hardcast blightsteel vs grixis. game 2 t0 leyline with just not enough pressure. had thalia and vengevine and hollow one but he found 4th land for dack. not sure if casting hollowone was correct but I needed cradle to tap for 3 for vengevine. (0-2)

Match UW Thalia Eldrazi?? Game one went quick with survival overwhelming them. game 2 t1 big thalia into 2 mimics into seer won that game. game 3 t1 bazaar double VV hollow one got the concession. (2-1)

Match 5 vs grixis win off of thorrn into thalia into goyf into chalice for 0. weird match indeed.
Game 3 keep bazaar and squee and a single hollow one and vv no other mana; he went t1 dack t2 jace I went t2 cast 2 hollow ones brought back 2 vengevines for the win. (2-0)

Match 6 Vs Paradoxical Oath won game 1 with a bunch of dudes and all their wincons in the grave. lost games 2 and 3 by just being a turn to slow even with priest.

Sitting at 4-2 in 11th unfortunately but love this deck most fun I've had in magic I think.

@wfain I actually went up to 3 Bob's as I found he was so good at helping rebuild. With bob and squee you are "drawing" 3 cards a turn and turns on bazaar very quick.

Abrupt decay has been such a good catch all vs the jeakai pyro deck since it's both RiP removal and Mentor/young peezy removal. And also the only games I've won vs oath have been hitting oath with decay.

Edit: I guess I love bob in every match up except oath and vs t1 storm decks.

@kaluma @wfain Survival Salad (called dredgevine) Got played my ross Merriam on SCG VS's Series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjtNcW3Rcw

@wfain I've only ever cut one hollow one as them taking a single hollow one usually doesn't matter. I've found if they waste a turn stealing a hollow one I just survival out a wonder or more vines or attack and force a block; we can always get more vines back or end the chain with rootwalla into tasigur.

Edit: for shops no I like having as much pitch spells for bazaar as we want lands in hand and as chump blockers to buy turns if they start aggressive.

@kaluma I think oath is just gonna be one of those match ups where we need something to go right which I think is fair and not much we can do. I think we hope PO takes a hit in restrictions so we can dedicate more sb space to decays or containment priests.

I think this deck attacks at many different angles and is incredibly resilient. I won a game vs Grixis Thieves where t1 they had 2 leylines and a cage and I won off of Thalia and bob beats with stony silence killing their mana.

I think we have a great chance against any deck that wants to play a "fair" game of vintage and it's oath and storm type decks where we struggle.

If red is only really good against oath for anger I think it's better to focus more on making every other match up better.