@naixin I like the idea you suggest but i am not really sure it is working. I mean welding an early lattice is the broken play when everything goes well but probability are quite low.
There is lot of tension in Red shop mana base and the one you are suggesting is more or less the usual one that balances it all.
The problem is that you can't reliably cast an early Karn with that mana base. Shop lists that are trying to use it are using additionnal tools such as metalworker or grim monolith or city of traitors. Namely, you need more colorless source to cast it since you can't use workshop for it (adding vault and crypt is needed but not enough).
To make it short, i am not sure if you can put everything in one compact mana base. Or more to the point, i am not sure if what you win because of that plan is worth what you loose because of it.
I did some more tests with the list and enjoy it a lot.
I am wondering if main deck pithing needles might not be more useful than null rod in the current meta. They help protect our bazaar in game one and protect the combo in other games.
I tried it and i am quite happy but i did not played a lot of games so far. So I am wondering what people with more experience with that deck think of that ?
At first look, getting a conditional damnation for one more mana is pretty bad. But, the body left is quite neat for tempo reasons (one usually get full tap when playing a wrath effect and opponent can rebuild first). Not vintage or legacy level but i will definitively try it for casual multi.
I was very curious about this deck so i test it a bit and bring it to a small paper tournament today. The list was the last one suggested by Vroman and running life from the loam (see a few posts above). The mail was slow so i missed a few cards and made some minor change to it.
Namely -1 balance / +1 needle for MD.
The side was : 4 dark depths, 4 thespian stage, 4 leyline of the void, 1 needle, 1 vengeful pharaoh and 1 ancient grudge.
The results were average but mostly because the pilot did not master enough the deck.
Here are a few thoughts :
- i really missed 1 ichorid to trigger amalgam, i think i will put it in the balance/needle slot.
- i agree with Zias about Darkmor Salvage. Rifstone portal and some slow dredging can let us get loam running and getting the lands but it is really slow. Not sure what to cut yet but i will definitively want 1 or 2.
- i know that it is not exactly the plan but since i had 1 free slot in sideboard i tried ancient grudge. I found it quite neat to deal with cage, needle and time vault. Ray of revelation could be interesting too in sideboard but much less useful.
- Maybe i played the deck really bad but i am not convinced by Hollow one. It is great when you get it in opening hand or if you happen to get it with bazar when drawing instead of dredging, but most of the time it just get away when dredging. I know people love it in dredge decks but this deck is not exactly a classical dredge deck so maybe it is different. I don't know and will test much more.
- strip / loam lock is a thing.
- Hardcasting a 16/16 troll is just a blast !
My 10 cents
I did not do any deep analysis about that but my fear is : what if people find out that mulligan agressively into hate is the best strategy under that mulligan rule ? It would lead in not very interesting games where the winner would be the one who found the hate in fewer mulligan than his opponent.
I see several drawbacks for that card :
- Its effect triggers "at the beginning of your precombat main phase" so that means that when you cast it it is too late and you will get the effect only next turn.
- It is a creature. Will it survive long enough to get neat advantage ?
- Since it requires sacrifying a creature, the obvious shell is Dredge or any deck that plays mentor/pyro. I am not a Dredge expert but IMHO that deck will really want to cast a cabal therapy effect quick before hate goes on the battlefield. As for mentor/pyro, i guess they would rather have a non creature spell.
So i am not really optimistic about its use in Vintage. I agree that it may be interesting in a deck that is currently under radar but i fail to see which one yet.