I wonder if it would be worth running a random UB elemental to tutor up as a pitch card. I think that's just going too deep, but part of me wants to make Muldrotha, the Gravetide Vintage "playable"
At least it's a reasonably 'okay' Dread Return target as well, if not encumbered by Leyline. Play Bazaar every turn is a little like Sunny.
Muldrotha is definitely playable, but not really in these lists. There is a really nice infinite loop with it, lotus and animate dead that allows you to recur all your non-land permanents
What is this loop? I'm aware of the loop to Animate Dead a Phantasmal Image with Lotus (LED for cEDH) but not this.
Has anyone played a list with a mix of Leo and Lavinia? I've seen discussion about which to play, and i've seen the Lav lists now where it's more all-in on her (4 copies plus Mox Diamonds to support).
Just wondering how reasonable it is to just have like 2-2 or something in an otherwise normal BUG list.
And less people are playing Dark Confidant, Chalice, and Thorn? Seems to be dropping off.
This and all local vintage metas i keep hearing about make me want to move to New England.
There's some little talk about doing a large yearly even in a similar vein here in the PNW with Card Kingdom's storefront. We have a monthly sanctioned Vintage right now but probably a ways off from a big enough event to draw attendance from across the nation.
He has a very Squee-like effect vs controlling decks
I brought up Pharaoh before and opinions don't seem to have changed. I think Pharaoh's highest potential is that it's 'fine'. I could see punching back and forth with shops, and it's also a way to guarantee you have a creature in hand for Survival. But in playing i still have not had a reasonable chance to test him so i'm not sure if that grind factor really applies to shops. But, i have run out of creatures and just wished i had Bazaar to put a creature in my hand, so that's kinda cool with Pharaoh and with Gigapede. Gigapede has to have another card in hand but guarantees you get a body in hand. I just don't think that's as exciting as having another Squee because i have never been in a situation (so far. again; i don't play online so i don't play as much as much as others responding) where i'm like "welp, time to cast 5 drops old fashioned". I barely ever cast Vengevine so far.
Any updates on this list?
Have you seen/like Trinisphere in the main?
Have you seen/like Dark Depths in 2CM?
I played against a 2cm deck at Eternal Weekend a year ago, and they had StageDepths with Crucibles and Mirage Mirrors and probably 2 Strips. Saw Bazaar as well. They had Leyline/Helm, not sure if they had Goblin, Grindstone, or Servant; they may be what was cut from their version.
What's your take on Wheel? Jar is clearly superior, although i feel like squeezing in another draw 7. I'm not a player of this deck, just thinking about it.
@AeonSovarius This is actually a great opportunity for me, as I was starting to write a dredge primer for vintage. This will allow me to collect and summarize my thoughts, so hopefully I do a good job!
Super great help actually. Good timing, and @volrathxp just posted a video on pitch dredge yesterday!
Personally I dislike Gurmag Angler, and I think many people would agree. He is simply counter-intuitive to how dredge function at a basic level.
Oh for sure. I think people aren't going for dredging when they use this, though, but rather as a 1 mana 5/5 as long as the graveyard isn't exile.
- Lands: As with nearly all cards, this depends on your list. If you are running more Blooghast, you can run more consistent lands like Dakmor Salvage and Undiscovered Paradise. You do not have any other reason to not run the Rainbow land, as far as I know.
You wouldn't run Paradise if you weren't casting spells and having Bloodghast. I see a good number of lists with barely any land or strictly just the 4 Bazaar or 4 Bazaar/2 Dakmor. The side has 6-7 lands and removal (Claim, Wispmare, Chewer). I'm not sure what the sideboard plan is though? (this is pitch dredge lists i've seen, maybe you board out counters)
- Creeping Chill: I personally really like the card, but it is completely unproven. I think if Oath or DPS where to become meta, then it could potential be good.
Why would you said it's good against oath?
- GY hate: I would say this has to do with the expected meta. I would avoid Ravenous Trap, as it seems very risky and bad in the mirror. For Leyline, it is generally seen as a low cost inclusion that can help you against a fair amount of the field because of how most decks abuse the graveyard.
My question was in regards to playing it in the main board. As far as i can tell, it is reasonable because you have such a huge g1 win %, those 3-4 cards don't matter vs any deck you autowin against, but is what makes the g1 mirror better. I've only seen a couple lists with rav trap or leyline in the main. But yeah for sure, hurts traditional storm and oath and lots of things on the side.
First, i am not even remotely versed in Dredge, and not really a Vintage pro at all.
But i have the paper cards to build any Dredge version so i can loan it out for events or practice against it. However, there are so many varieties of Dredge i see on MTGtop8 and the further i go back in time the more i see. And while i have the cards for all versions now, what i really want to be able to do is not constantly be switching out cards.
I have so many questions! I want to build something that is understandable and quality enough for FNM and such.
What's a "standard dredge" deck look like? Is any version at the moment considered the best variety?
Pitch dredge seems real fancy but must be less explosive?
I see versions with Gurmag Angler and Hollow one in the side, i see version with 4 Hollow One main??
I see versions with Bloodghast and Undiscovered/rainbow lands, but i see version with Bazaars and 1 Salvage only with the lands in the side?
Is Creeping Chill the real deal or is it a card that's better considered currently unproven/in testing?
Dread Return targets i see Elesh Norn, but doesn't it seem the triggered ability pump of Flamekin dodges spot removal better?
I see lists with either 4x Leyline of the Void or 3-4x Ravenous Trap to (i presume) beat opposing Dredge. Does this watering down just not matter because of how overwhelming and unstoppable Dredge is against most decks G1?
I have seen 4x Serum Powder and i have also seen 0 Powder main (if i recall correctly there were a few in the side).
Thanks for any help!