JANUARY 9, 2017 BANNED AND RESTRICTED ANNOUNCEMENT POLL
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No changes to Vintage. This announcement has brought over some heated debate and I thought it would be nice to have a simple poll on whether the community (TMD community in this case) feels the "no changes" announcement was right or wrong. I am not asking what should be changed, just how people feel about the announcement. Thanks. (And hope I can setup it correctly...)
edit. Sorry about the topic name I copy pasted it from wotc site and its all capital letters...
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No changes. The sign of a well run format, traversed by intelligent contemporary gentlemen.
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Maybe Modern-level action on Gitaxian Probe will bring Legacy and Vintage changes next announcement. It happened with Dig Through Time, after all.
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I actually don't think a simple "yes" or "no" cuts this format. I'm perfectly fine with no restrictions at all. I think we're in a good spot. But I think if misstep and probe were restricted we'd be in a slightly better spot. So while I'm happy with the status quo I'd be happy with a little movement, too.
I think an option of - "Not the wrong decision." is more appropriate (because they easily could make the wrong decision and ban the wrong cards).
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@socialite said in JANUARY 9, 2017 BANNED AND RESTRICTED ANNOUNCEMENT POLL:
No changes. The sign of a well run format, traversed by intelligent contemporary gentlemen.
Well put.
The format is pretty interesting right now with recent printings still working through the metagame, and the metagame churning the last few months. This was the right decision.
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Always happy to see no changes rather than the wrong changes, but I'm not really in love with Vintage at the moment.
Maybe Chalice coming off would help a mana drain deck rise from the ashes (a la Blue Moon) and help nip the premature talk of a Paradoxical Outcome restriction in the bud?
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fun fact: all the cards banned in Standard have won Vintage tournaments.
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@wappla And the wons banned in Modern.
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It took a while but I got over Mana Drain. It was hard, I mean the site is named after it for a reason. But I can't really imagine going back to any format where the dominant strategic umbrella is draw-go-combo.
Gush should be safe, it's basically what allows for grindy value plays to be realizable in Vintage. I don't really get hung up about Mentor as I think it has tactical weaknesses to exploit, but it is also the least interesting card that appears alongside Gush. That's not really grounds enough for restriction, but I wouldn't be opposed. To paraphrase one of my favourite podcasters (Mike Flores) - it's more interesting when you make plays that are part of a process, rather than just putting a period at the end of a sentence.
I don't really know what Gitaxian Probe is enabling that is problematic.
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@ribby said in JANUARY 9, 2017 BANNED AND RESTRICTED ANNOUNCEMENT POLL:
It took a while but I got over Mana Drain. It was hard, I mean the site is named after it for a reason. But I can't really imagine going back to any format where the dominant strategic umbrella is draw-go-combo.
Gush should be safe, it's basically what allows for grindy value plays to be realizable in Vintage. I don't really get hung up about Mentor as I think it has tactical weaknesses to exploit, but it is also the least interesting card that appears alongside Gush. That's not really grounds enough for restriction, but I wouldn't be opposed. To paraphrase one of my favourite podcasters (Mike Flores) - it's more interesting when you make plays that are part of a process, rather than just putting a period at the end of a sentence.
I don't really know what Gitaxian Probe is enabling that is problematic.
Can we be friends, really?
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Git probe needs restricted. Maybe derpstep, but I can handle derp and gush. Git probe tho feels extremely "cheaty" giving you masses of info and a free draw. One of the things that seperates the great players from the rest is playing correctly while not knowing what your opponent has. Knowing cards, lists, play styles, and tells from opponent are all very key elements to the game. Git Probe throws all that out the window.
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@wappla Dude they banned a slightly improved Man-o-War... Like Wtf?
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@Serracollector What deck is Git probe making better exactly? What deck is it a can't cut in? Its a good card, but lets not get carried away. It gets destroyed by Thorn effects, and the life loss can be non-negligible.
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It allows mentor/PO/Storm decks to know immediatley whether its safe to go off or not, with practically no drawback. Knowing whether you should cast spell X or Y turn one should be part of the guess work, not pay 2 life draw a card and know what your opponent has. Thats far too much information. Git probe is fine if we restrict Gush, Mentor, PO, and Dark Petition. I would rather restrict 1 card rather than a plethora tho.
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@Serracollector I don't think it does anything to curtail the insanity of Mentor, and the mana generating engines (PO+Gush). You are restricting one of the weakest cards in the deck just to restrict something.
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Git Probe might be one of the weakest cards in the deck, but that's saying a lot. The card is completely fool proof. If you draw it in your opener there is a 100% chance that the right thing to do is cast it. It's a free roll for the cost of what amounts to nothing and the information you get removes all skill from the game. "Herp derp, no Force? Oh that sucks for you, game over. ". Or, "oh, you got 2x Force and a bunch of action, guess I should hold off for a few turns and find my Flusterstorm first." That's not what Magic should be about. Probe is the least skill demanding card ever printed. Yes, ever printed.
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Post above, SPOT ON. It isn't about the power level of the card as far as "doing" broken things. Its the information gained with no draw back allowing players to know they dont have to play around anything. Wizards said it perfectly in thier reasoning for banning it in modern, except in Vintage its even more absurd. A big part of magic is leaving that XX mana untapped to make the opponent think you got an answer. Bluff or not, Git Probe just completly nullifies that thinkn mans part of the game.
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@vaughnbros Reflector Mage is indeed a hilarious banning. It's also emblematic. They have pushed creatures overall so hard in recent years that a gold three-drop with an improved Man-o'-War effect is the 2016 version of Mana Drain.
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@enderfall Its goes right along the Derpstep, 2W win the game, and the other low skill cards in the Mentor Gush. Probe makes decision making easier, but if it were so good people would actually misstep it. I'll reiterate that restricting changes nothing in terms of decks. Maybe it makes playing the game slightly harder... not something that I honestly really care about. The game is plenty hard already.
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@vaughnbros I'm nobody when it comes to having a track record, but if it's turn 1, I Misstep the crap out of Probe. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it's almost a losing battle after that, especially if I have nothing really going on.
