R&D is completely incompetent

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New uncommon from the set....seems nice and innocuous at first glance....it's not

Honestly it could be a portent that Magic the Gathering is coming to an end. Why you might ask?

R&D tested this in the future future league for about 2 years before finally printing the cards to paper, they neglected to realize how it interacts with this "lovable loser"

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Two card, immediate win in standard on turn 4.

I'll repeat that, two card auto win combo....in Standard.

This kinda of laziness is bad. Very bad. Turns people off the game bad. Standard was already having major problems....and if you look at eternal staples since the announcement of Starcity walking away from Legacy, everything has either entirely flatlined or decreased in value.

I'm not saying this is the end of Magic, but this kind of pure ineptitude from R&D over the last year could be a pivot point towards its downfall. It started with Eldrazi Winter; great for Vintage, awful for the format they are actually trying to grow Modern.

Now Aetherworks Marvel Emrakul standard (if you don't know how low this Standard's reputation is, click here http://epicstream.com/news/Magic-The-Gathering-Game-Designer-Asks-for-Feedback-on-Standard-the-Response-Is-Overwhelming) gets replaced by Pestermite/Splinter twin except in this case one card helps locate the they one.

last edited by Guest

Yeah it's very hard to understand how they missed this - have they actually come out and said whether they were aware of the interaction in testing or not? Because given the wording of the white guy, it does look like it was explicitly designed to allow blinking of planes walkers.

This certainly isn't going to help the reputation of the current standard format. Which is certainly what they're trying to grow/salvage, not Modern. Still, could be fun to play 'twin' in one format at least....

Edit: Huge price spike for Saheeli Rain of course..... joy 😕

last edited by sodoyouwearacape

Do we know that they missed it, and were not deliberately introducing a two card combo into Stanard?

@The-Atog-Lord said in R&D is completely incompetent:

Do we know that they missed it, and were not deliberately introducing a two card combo into Stanard?

No, we don't. It's snowing here in Philly, however, so people saying the sky is falling are technically correct.

Must admit, I referred to speculation over the price spike as it being combo winter 2.0, but that was for effect. I honestly don't think it's anywhere near as bad as Urza time. Maybe they have introduced it on purpose after all. Enhanced push deals with the critter after all...

I mean given how contentious twin has been in modern, I honestly can't believe that they actually missed it.


So you're saying they didn't miss it and actively said let's try this; I'm pretty sure that is worse.

They have a policy about two card auto win combos that don't need other cards....they don't like them.

last edited by Guest

It very well could be that R&D did not miss this at all and is allowing a gentle form of combo winter in standard. There are two reasons why they might do this. The first reason is that it has been a long time since Johnny got his day and standard. The second reason is that it fits with the theme of the set. After all, this set is all about inventions and ingenuity. Printing so many combo cards allows the player to take the role of a kaladesh inventor.

I suppose it's equally likely that R&D knew about all the combos they were creating in the kaladesh block and did so intentionally on the one hand, or that R&D simply printed a very high volume of the kind of cards that generally enable combos and then left it up to the players to see what would happen on the other. For example, they printed a huge proportion of cards that allow you to cast other spells for free or otherwise put permanent onto the battlefield, and generally tried to keep the lid on the combos power by restricting the casting cost of the cards you could check out. If you look, you will also find that kaladesh block has a lot of triggered abilities. Triggered abilities that don't cost Mana to use are the bread-and-butter of infinite combos. For example, there is a card called Crackdown construct which Goetz + 1 + 1 until end of turn every time you activate an ability. MTG The Source has dubbed him breakfast robot and I hope the name sticks, for obvious reasons.

Anyway I'm sad that people are treating the density of combos in kaladesh like a bad thing because this kind of set perfect not just for possible vintage play but as a source of interesting decks for years to come. This that is a spiritual successor to Urzas block, and serves as a Proving Ground to see whether a more sophisticated and experienced design and development team can create an environment that is combo Rich while still being fun to play. We'll see what the format shakes out, but I'm optimistic.

last edited by MaximumCDawg


I follow mtgstocks to keep up with the next "craze," this card didn't have any price action until yesterday.

@gkraigher Saheeli went from $5 to $22 in a day. Whoops!

@MaximumCDawg And, here is another thought. The set seems to be designed around combo and control... just like the rebellious inventors versus the Consulate. Nice.

I'm all for this kind of stuff in Conspiracy or commander where the cards go straight to eternal formats, where then can be absorbed.

But when you crush Modern and Standard, you are killing the growth of the game.

@gkraigher Newbies gotta find their Johnny somehow. Not everyone likes Turning Dudes Sideways: The Gathering, and giving us a standard format with heavy combo once in a decade can't be too bad.

I mean, unless we end up with Kamigawa or Masques as a result. ...

It's been blatantly clear to me (and many others) that the current development team has almost no idea what they're doing because if they do, they are either horribly misguided or almost pure evil. They have a very strict idea of what should be both fun and playable that hardly matches up with what the players actually want. I haven't heard people say they were happy with standard in a long time, and I've personally hated modern basically since I tried it.

I play vintage because I can have a fun, somewhat diverse (when not every single person is on shops or PO) format whereI can actually brew successfully. Brewing in standard will just result in you losing to whatever deck jammed the most cards R&D decided should be the most powerful this time around that the pros already discovered weeks ago.

I could go on forever, but I want to say that no Wrath of God or Llanowar Elves when Gideon and Sylvan Advocate are fine is just.. baffling.

There's a decent chance that they realized it, tested it, and found that it loses to someone with the right removal spell. I'm not sure though. Given what they have said I am inclined to believe that they wouldn't allow such a combo in Standard on purpose, so it seems like it is likely an accident. I have no idea though.

I forsee a Saheeli ban in Modern. If they stopped Splinter Twin with a ban, where you could get 2-for-1nd with removal spells, I can't see how they let a BETTER combo live where the best you can do for disruption is a 1-for-1 trade. Considering Saheeli is much better alone than Splinter Twin, I don't think it will stand for long. It's the same RU colors as the old combo, just splashing one W. If this new creature were 1WWW, then maybe I could see it. But running a blue control deck and needing just RW for the combo vs RR for the combo is negligible. I think a bunch will buy high on Saheeli, and I'll await the rant thread when DCI bans Saheeli and people bitch about price drops and getting their unnfair combo nerfed.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

I dunno, two card combo in Standard entices me more to want to play it. Standard MTG hasn't been fun since new borders. Usually ugly boring cards with CGI art. Cheers R&D.

last edited by darkquarterer


It doesn't matter that a removal spell beats the combo, everything has a weakness. What matters is that you HAVE to have a removal spell to beat the interation.

I can't wait to watch the pro tour get decided in game 7 on a mull to 5, and the player combos out of a top deck for the win. #SKILLGAME

I really think this will be fine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Saheeli takes any damage at all (is at 2 or less loyalty) then the combo is off?

last edited by Topical_Island
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