[AER] Walking Ballista



  • I'm 95% certain that the very best card to play alongside ballista is steel overseer



  • @gkraigher said in [AER] Walking Ballista:

    I'm 95% certain that the very best card to play alongside ballista is steel overseer

    Why durdle when you can just end the game and not pigeon hole yourself into playing such a marginal card?



  • @CwaM said in [AER] Walking Ballista:

    @wappla that's a nice start as this scenario may happen even with not so crazy hand
    Turn 1 Workshop Inspector Mox Ravager
    Turn 2 Tomb, balista x=1, hangarback x=3 , is like 19 dmg if i'm not wrong

    I'm trying to calculate this out...

    Turn 1, play Workshop, Inspector, Mox, Ravager.
    Turn 2, play Tomb, Balista with X = 1 and hangerback with x =3.
    Sac hangarback to Ravager (2/2)
    Sac 3 hangarback tokens to Ravager (5/5)
    Sac mox to Ravager (6/6)
    Swing with Inspector and Ravager (6/6 and 3/2 for 9 dmg)
    Sac Inspector to Ravager (7/7)
    Sac Ravager to Ravager - modular tokens over to Ballista (8/8)
    Ballista unloads for 8.

    So I think that's 17 damage total, and it's an all-in proposition.



  • @MaximumCDawg said in [AER] Walking Ballista:

    I'm trying to calculate this out...

    Turn 1, play Workshop, Inspector, Mox, Ravager.
    Turn 2, play Tomb, Balista with X = 1 and hangerback with x =3.
    Sac hangarback to Ravager (2/2)
    Sac 3 hangarback tokens to Ravager (5/5)
    Sac mox to Ravager (6/6)
    Swing with Inspector and Ravager (6/6 and 3/2 for 9 dmg)
    Sac Inspector to Ravager (7/7)
    Sac Ravager to Ravager - modular tokens over to Ballista (8/8)
    Ballista unloads for 8.

    So I think that's 17 damage total, and it's an all-in proposition.

    And we're off to the races!!!



  • You forget that your opponent fetched and Git Probed already. GG.



  • Well, if my opponent gitprobed, then she's also likely to know that the most important thing in life at that moment is for her to have a Force of Will or Steel Sabotage or whatever in her hand. So... you go all in, then you get blow'd out. :(

    It's not like all-in-shops can afford to run disruption like storm decks can.

    But hey, we don't need Magical Christmas land here. Ballista gives your Ravager "double strike" and it can do it for a little as 2 mana. Trike does this for 6. There's no comparison.

    Trike is dead. Long live Ballista!



  • @MaximumCDawg said in [AER] Walking Ballista:

    Well, if my opponent gitprobed, then she's also likely to know that the most important thing in life at that moment is for her to have a Force of Will or Steel Sabotage or whatever in her hand. So... you go all in, then you get blow'd out. :(

    It's not like all-in-shops can afford to run disruption like storm decks can.

    But hey, we don't need Magical Christmas land here. Ballista gives your Ravager "double strike" and it can do it for a little as 2 mana. Trike does this for 6. There's no comparison.

    Trike is dead. Long live Ballista!

    How does this line get blown out by counter magic exactly?

    Yeah, it can't afford to run the disruption of DPS/PO - it just gets to run better disruption.



  • @socialite Oh, you know what I mean. You can't clear the way with a Duress effect or protect your Ravager with a Force of Will. If you are resolving lock pieces anyway, it may not make a ton of difference whether you end the game in 2 turns or 3 turns.

    Shops is not particularly well-positioned to go all-in on a gambit like the turn two, 18 damage we were talking about. It means your hand has no disruption or lock pieces, basically. Once you add those in, you're moving more slowly. The cards are still amazing, but losing to a big Ravager on turn 5 is more like losing to a Golem on turn 5.

    In the Christmasland scenario, imagine the opponent counters Ravager. Okay, great. Your hand is full of beaters, you have a 1/1 and 3/3 and a 3/2 and no lock pieces. SOUNDS GREAT right until Mentor resolves.



  • @MaximumCDawg

    I understand the play patterns associated with various match ups.

    My disagreement with you does not mean I lend creedance or imply this line is the be all end all. You're getting way too hung up on a thought experiment.

    I'm sorry you're having difficulty identifying the implications of the functionality of this deck, try actually playing it instead of arm chairing.

    Additionally, is it really Christmas land when it only requires one restricted card of three in your deck to execute?



  • I guess I don't understand what you're tellin' me, then. I'm saying that Ballista is bonkers-good and probably just flat out obsoletes Trike. It doesn't have to combo on turn 2 to be amazing, and indeed, I don't even think that's the best place for it because of... what I just said.

    I mean, do we actually disagree, or...?



  • @MaximumCDawg

    Triskelion had a legendary run for a 6 mana card. If you still love Trik, I suggest picking up my 93/94 old school mud list.



  • @MaximumCDawg I wonder if Trikes place becomes Ballista 5 in some lists.



  • @MaximumCDawg

    I find seven power on turn two to still be relevant in this format. For years players have been casting Oath and Tinker for far worse. This deck is a chameleon. We agree Ballista has potential going forward but downplaying the ability of this deck to flex roles similar to Delver seems silly.





  • @MaximumCDawg

    ^^ +100



  • @wappla

    I like your list a lot. Made a few personal modifications, the deck is weak to Null Rod and gets beat by paradoxical outcome, but other than that it looks and plays great:

    Artifact (21)

    1x Black Lotus 1x Chalice of the Void 1x Mana Crypt 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Ruby 1x Mox Sapphire 3x Smuggler's Copter 1x Sol Ring 4x Tangle Wire 4x Thorn of Amethyst 1x Trinisphere

    Land (19)

    4x Ancient Tomb 1x Ghost Quarter 4x Mishra's Factory 4x Mishra's Workshop 1x Strip Mine 1x Tolarian Academy 4x Wasteland

    Creature (20)

    4x Arcbound Ravager 4x Foundry Inspector 3x Hangarback Walker 1x Lodestone Golem 4x Phyrexian Revoker 4x Walking Ballista

    Sideboard (15)

    2x Crucible of Worlds 2x Ghost Quarter 4x Grafdigger's Cage 4x Sphere of Resistance 1x Sword of War and Peace 2x Wurmcoil Engine


  • @gkraigher

    Being weak to Rod and getting beat by outcome are two resounding "unacceptables" in my book with the metagame the way it is right now.

    -Storm



  • @Stormanimagus

    Very much agree



  • @Stormanimagus said in [AER] Walking Ballista:

    @gkraigher

    Being weak to Rod and getting beat by outcome are two resounding "unacceptables" in my book with the metagame the way it is right now.

    -Storm

    Have you seen my jump to conclusions playmat?



  • Why hasn't anyone tried Scrap Trawler in these lists? Being able to return Walkers/Ballistas for "infinite" value seems some good.


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