Emrakul, the Promised End in Landstill

About Joeseph Bogaard's vintage championship deck: Why the Emrakul?? do you really hardcast him? Isn't a Ponder better in that slot??? Enlighten me, people!

last edited by Brass Man

My understanding is that Joeseph himself didn't even really like the card that much - I believe he only cast it twice in the entire day (and one of those times he was already very far ahead), though once was in the finals. I'd love to hear from Joe if I'm mistaken about that.

I think, in theory, Landstill expects to go very long, and Emrakul, the Promised End could be a way of breaking games against other decks that are going long. If both players are slowly building up a perfect seven, Emrakul breaks that standoff better than a counterable threat could. Both combo decks and pure control decks have a tendency to do this sort of thing (sit back and craft a better hand than the other player) when a standstill hits the board.

That said, I suspect the payoff isn't worth the cost of having it be uncastable in most games. Like you, I'd rather have a Ponder. A more experienced Landstill player than me would have to weigh in on that.

@Brass-Man I haven't seen anyone play with the card in his deck, but I tried the new Emrakul in UW Landstill and I was capable hardcasting the card from turn 3 quite often. Once I even played it on t2. It required the help from my opponent, for example him countering Sensei's Divining Top or playing something into Standstill but then he just faced Emrakul and no matter if the card resolved it just did its thing and the game was over. One thing is sure I never had problems casting the card.
I actually liked that but then rather decided to go Nahiri Control way and figured old Emrakul is better.

(I don't usually play landstill decks, but hardcasting Emrakul was fun and if the plan went awry there was still crucible and mishra's factory^_^)

last edited by stsung

Now I'm intrigued! How much cost reduction were you getting off of Emrakul? I'm assuming that Tribal, Creature, Planeswalker are not very common cards in the yard on turn 3 ... If your graveyard had Land, Instant, Sorcery, Artifact, maybe Enchantment on turn 3, you're still talking about resolving an early 8-9-drop.

How often is the deck getting 8 or 9 mana on turn 3? Why Emrakul over Yawgmoth's Bargain or Tezzeret?

I don't know a lot about how Landstill plays out, but I was under the assumption that Emrakul was a late game card ... if I was wrong about that, I feel like there must be a way that other decks can leverage this - there are a lot of decks that would love to play 5s and 6s on turn two/three. ... Can I build a Dragonstorm deck with the Landstill manabase?

@Brass-Man this makes totally sense to me... i have been in those situations in control mirrors where you just sculpt your perfect 7 when a standstill is on board and in that case Emy should win the game. thanks for the reply. still i think a more usefull card like ponder is more suitable for me.. i might just be a bad player but still ... the % of games in wich ill be willing to have emrakul in my hand vs the games in wich i needed a cantrip is big for me

@Brass-Man Having Delirium is very easy (4 cards). Getting fifth one is realistic. The thing is I often cast Emrakul out of Mana Drain on Force of Will. I can't cast Yawgmoth's Bargain with it that. And Tezzeret would need more slots in the deck, I mean I'd probably have to play a completely different deck (same with Bargain). The deck does not play anything like Time Vault/Key. It's just bunch of counterspells and cantrips and lands. It plays the long game. If you get to late game you don't need Emrakul. That is why I was trying to cast Emrakul as soon as possible or at the moment I knew I can't stop a combo from killing me.

The deck does not really need much cantrips when it has access to Standstill. It does not need something like Preordain, that is just not so good. I'd rather play Predict^_^. It seems to me that the best card you can replace Emrakul with is Jace, the Mind Sculptor otherwise Emrakul is always better.

EDIT: it is unfortunate that I had to reinstall Magic Online otherwise I would show you some games. I seriously disgusted some players with early Emrakul with or without Mana Drain involved.

EDIT2: Who came up with the idea of Emrakul in that deck? That person might give us some insight on that. I had 2 uses for it that I already mentioned. Early threat that no deck was capable of dealing with or a mindslaver in a situation I couldn't deal with and that often won the game. Late game the card was more like win-more or it ended the game earlier which was often fine because this deck is not really fast and can go to time easily when things get a bit complicated

last edited by stsung

I play a lot of Oathstill with big Emrakul in it. I can tell you in that deck there really are times where the game goes so long that you just cast a Lotus at the end of the game, and if it doesn't get countered you just reach 15 mana and cast the other Emrakul... the torn one. And just rip it up with an uncounterable threat.

Another way you can do that is to cast Lotus, Force your own Lotus, and then Mana Drain your Force to get a ton of mana (that's trading Force and card and Drain for 3 mana, for those counting at home) on a second main phase and again, drop a spaghetti monster.

I have not played with Emrakul, TPE at all. But I can imagine that it pairs pretty well with Mana Drain, in terms of maybe picking off a Dig, or Cruise, or even a Gush or a Force. It's not crazy to think that round about turn 4, you might have a land + instant + some other thing in the yard, have 5 mana on the board, then Drain a Gush or a Force and watch your opponent realize that adds up to 13.

It certainly would make me think twice about Gushing into two untapped islands at that point in the game... but I really haven't played the deck. Maybe it actually stinks.

last edited by Topical_Island

I have been testing out other cards that this Emrakul does, and none fit the bill. I even tested Mindslaver just to see what the big deal was. Even The mono black Sorin with the slaver type ultimate. Although, each are good, each one does something for a slightly different Landstill deck. In the current meta I wouldn't run Slaver, would much rather pack Null Rod.
Sorin Markov needs triple black, which is brutal.
That leaves us with Emrakul,tpe

In LCV Emrakul the PEL is a real card. I have seen it being played more than once (I even lost a close game because of it). In the hardest control deck this is another control card payable with colorless mana, and not too much (average cost is 7 after graveyard reductions). Even if it gets countered/removed, the effect stays and can provide decent advantage. If not, there you have a huge creature that skips moat.

Not a card for any deck, but if you want a finisher in Landstill, it's probably the best.

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