So I've been playing a bit of Doomsday lately and I love the deck. Originally I found some lists from MTGO that I tried out and generally enjoyed. A common trait among these lists were that they only ran a singleton Dark Ritual. After a while I decided to try and up that to 4x rituals and add a Necropotence. I've cut a Gush, going down to 3, as well as a Merchant Scroll, a Flusterstorm (3 -> 2) and a Misstep (4 ->3). The Rituals obviously also lead to more early turn Doomsdays and having the Necro in there doesn't feel like much of a cost compared to the potential payout.

I'm generally pleased with the results but I don't feel like I get to play enough to work up a large enough sample size to really make an informed call so I thought I'd ask what thoughts you all might on the matter?

Ugh. This pains me. The only person who seems to think Dark Ritual is good in this deck is one east coast player (Josh Butker).

Outside that, it's trash. Smmenen is probably the only person on the planet who's played Doomsday more than me, and I never like more than 1 or 2 rituals. They help you do the Tendrils of Agony kill without Doomsday more effectively, but they're usually just dead draws.

I would NEVER add more Dark Rituals. As a matter of fact, my latest Doomsday List actually only plays 2 Doomsdays. You're the best Gush deck in the format, with a condensed win condition. My plan is to control turn 1 and turn 2, and kill on turn 3.

To do that, I play

3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Mistep
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

Also, I am guessing since you're cutting Gush (absolutely 1,000,000,000,000% wrong... yes, one trillion percent) you're not playing fastbond, which functions as your other Dark Ritual.

My suggestion: Stop thinking of doomsday as a storm deck. It's a control deck.

Thanks a lot for your response. I'm still very new to Vintage (having recently graduated from years of Legacy) so I'm definitely interested in hearing the opinions of seasoned Vintage players.

A few follow ups:

• you mention Fastbond. Do you run Fastbond in your main deck? If not, why not?
• you write that Doomsday is "the best Gush deck in the format". That's quite a statement and I'd love it if you could expand on that?

Also, would still love it if more people would chime in with their opinions. Differing or not.

@Soly hey would you mind reposting the second part of this thread again...id like to know how your list hs changed if at all since 2013... always looking wisdom from a more experienced doomsday pilot. Thank you

@Soly Thank you that looks very gnarly!

@Soly hey there. I'm on my phone and the interface is being a pain so maybe that's why but I feel like I'm missing something with your list. I count 61 maindeck cards and not a single doomsday?

WHOOPS wrong loist.

2 Doomsday
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain
1 Sensei's Top
1 Duress
3 Flusterstorm
3 Mistep
4 Force of Will
1 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Fastbond
4 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dig through Time
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Dark Ritual
1 Tendrils
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Flooded STrand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp

3 Serenity
1 Balance
1 Plains
2 Path to Exile
1 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Extirpate

I saw online a doomsday deck with Flash Hulk combo as sideboard. Its good sideboard ? I didnt understand against which decks I change and what i should out/in.
I used to play Doomsday, but Menedian version (got his pdf).
And still a good deck? I remember its very hard (or hardest) deck to play, maybe dont see enough results?
Thanks !

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Brainstorm
1 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dig Through Time
4 Doomsday
2 Duress
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Gush
1 Island
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Mental Misstep
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideobard
1 Body Snatcher
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Flash
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karmic Guide
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Nature's Claim
4 Protean Hulk
1 Vampiric Tutor

I'd love for the deck's designer to chime in, but I've played against the Flash sideboard list online, and it beat me up. He brought it in against me running a prison/Thorn of Amethyst strategy, where the mana cost and instant speed are a big benefit, and Flash-critical tutors and card disadvantage aren't as much of a drawback as they would be against a deck with counters.

Oh thanks!!
His nick is TKC55, japanese player. He said was thinking to write about this deck, but no idea where to post. I suggested here but no answer.
im tryin back to vintage for next eternal weekend, and my decks always was puzzle style hahaha.

Yeah, if you know him at all, definitely tell him I would love to see something on TMD. I've been really interested in picking up the deck after watching him do so well with it.

@Soly said:

Ugh. This pains me. The only person who seems to think Dark Ritual is good in this deck is one east coast player (Josh Butker).

My bad, he and I developed that deck together. I'm on a singleton Dark Ritual these days.

@mickey.nobilis

The singleton is great since you never cast anything other than Doomsday and Necro with them, and I never liked necro in the deck anyway.

Just to be clear, the only reason that Mike and I advocated for 4 Rituals was because we were running a much more combo-centric version of the deck. But I agree with Soly that in a more controlling version, like Soly and Steve and many others run, 4 Rituals is not the best; 1, maybe 2, would be the way to go.

Right now, with Thorn being so prevalent, the combo version probably isn't as good as the control version.

That being said, even in the combo version with 4 Rituals, Mike and I very rarely included Necro in the list.

@Takaryx I never knew you had a TMD account.

I tried doomsday in a 40ish person event at Champs. Unfortunately, back when blue decks weren't all mentor, the deck was better. Unfortunately, now that literally every deck just kills you with gush + the US's National Debt worth of counterspells, Doomsday just doesn't cut it.

If mentor goes OR gush goes, I'll have a sick Doomsday list.

Yeah. I don't post hardly ever, obviously, and I haven't even been playing much recently, unfortunately.

But I think you're right. The environment just isn't as DD friendly as it used to be.

@Takaryx said:

Just to be clear, the only reason that Mike and I advocated for 4 Rituals was because we were running a much more combo-centric version of the deck. But I agree with Soly that in a more controlling version, like Soly and Steve and many others run, 4 Rituals is not the best; 1, maybe 2, would be the way to go.

Right now, with Thorn being so prevalent, the combo version probably isn't as good as the control version.

That being said, even in the combo version with 4 Rituals, Mike and I very rarely included Necro in the list.

I agree, it's been a while since I've really thought about it and a while since I've dealt with the metagame I played it in. I ran a sideboard Necropotence from time to time, but honestly that was mostly because it is available white-bordered.

Since I stumbled onto this thread I've been toying with @Soly's build, but with the Flash sideboard. Also, Engineered Explosives has become a new favorite of mine for snagging Spheres and Thorns since it doesn't get bumped up in price until the third effect hits play.