Paradoxical Twist

[Serracollector]

Have you tried balance? With the 4 opals, petal, lotus, and mox pearl, maybe one any color land should easily be enough white sources, and an early balance can be way more devastating than a singleton Duress.

[beder]

@Serracollector said:

Have you tried balance? With the 4 opals, petal, lotus, and mox pearl, maybe one any color land should easily be enough white sources, and an early balance can be way more devastating than a singleton Duress.

I have been trying to add white in this build for a while.
Balance is of course an interesting add on. As well as 1 fragmentize (great out to many problems ) and 1 monastery mentor (which would be an interesting winning road as it is very different from the other ones).
But so far I have not been able to design a reliable manabase. It s a bit streched between 3 constraints: access to colors, usage of ancient tomb and land artifact to consistently activate mox opal.

[Khahan]

@beder said:

• Preordain vs Thoughtcast => after trying 4 thoughtcasts, I decided to go with the preordain. It makes the build more resilient, solid and less 100% dependent on having 3 artifact in hand at the beginning.

Turn 1, yes preordain is better. But with this kind of deck, from what I've been finding, once you get past turn 2 you often have few cards in hand. I'd much rather have U - draw 2 cards than U - draw 1 card at that point.

Note that I don t use brainstorm as I feel that 4 shuffle effects is not enough.
Yes, shuffle effects make brainstorm better when you can shuffle away 2 cards you don't necessarily need. But if there was an instant speed that read, "Look at the top 3 cards of your library, take any 2 cards from among them and your hand and put them on top of your library in any order" would you play it? Yes. that is exactly what brainstorm is. For 1 mana you dig 3 deep and know what your next 2 draws are.

Lotus Petal and/or Seat of the synod allow me to consistently use mox opal and quickly generate a lot of mana, similarly to a traditionnal turbo tezz deck. This is key to power up mid size mind twist or early combo. The interaction with Paradoxical Outcome is an additional benefit of this package.

After a few weeks of testing I just dropped the lotus petal from my build last night. Too often it did nothing. Try replacing it with candelabra of Tawnos and see what you think.

Finally and for Yawgmoth will, I have tried it quite a lot and was not so impressed. This deck doesn t put a lot of card in the graveyard - most of them are on the board. Then and due to the upfront mana cost of Paradoxical Outcome - you pay mana upfront, the spell gives you back some mana - it is sometimes difficult to chain a paradoxical after a Yawgmoth, especially without dark ritual

Yes, sometimes it can be difficult. But most of the time its perfectly reasonable and a great way to recover and refill. If its a problem for you often enough that you don't want to play yawg will then I'd say there is a problem with your build's ability to generate mana.

You are running 27 mana sources but 1 is lotus petal, so its a 1 and done. 3 are mox opal so you can't have more than 1 in play. 2 dont untap as normal. You only have 13 lands and 2 of them produce colorless mana only. How often is having the proper mana early (first 3 turns, say) an issue?

[A Former User]

I have said before that I think Top is a manditory 2+ in the Paradox Deck. Especially if you have multiple keys, top can be insane. I would increase the top count, somehow.

The Misdirection and Duress don't make any sense. Not playing Flusterstorm seems like a completely wrong call when you're trying to resolve Mind Twist. You have no way to compete against opposing Flusterstorms. I would probably cut those two for flusterstorm at the very least.

I don't like Mind Twist at all, but that's preference, so that's your choice.

I feel like the Tendrils doesn't serve a purpose in this build unless you're already 'going off' with Outcome. I think that spot would be filled much better by a 1x Trinket Mage or Snapcaster Mage.

You also are stone dead to Null Rod or Stony Silence, which has been mentioned before You're running the Chain of Vapor, which is fine. I'd add probably another way to bounce them, probably an Echoing Truth.

[beder]

Thanks for all the remarks.
Taking into consideration some suggestions, I have been modifying and testing a new version of the build including a 3rd color, white.

The manabase has been changed to allow a 3 colors approach and make it a bit more resilient.

Overall, the build is slightly less explosive but more flexible and resilient. Particularly, the package to manage board threats and disruptions is now pretty solid - Engineer Explosive, Chain of vapor, Fragmentize and Balance.

The build is fun, fast and nice to play. IMO, 58 cards are pretty fixed, 2 slots are still quite opened and I keep changing them (see at the end of the list).

Paradoxical Twist V1.1

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal
1 Mana Vault

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Engineered Explosives

2 Ancient Tomb
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra

4 Force of Will
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Mind Twist
2 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fragmentize
1 Balance

1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Memory Jar
1 Tendrils of Agony

+2 slots undefined, below a lot of reasonnable options depending on which caracteristic you want to enhance
Timetwister, Yawgmoth's Will
Monastery mentor, Notion thief
Misdirection, Thoughtseize, Flusterstorm
Blightsteel, Inkwell
Snapacaster, Pre ordain, Merchant scroll, Trinket mage

[Serracollector]

I would play with 1 Swords to Plowshare, and 1 Path to Exile as my other cards.

[beder]

@Serracollector said:

I would play with 1 Swords to Plowshare, and 1 Path to Exile as my other cards.

I guess in a creature heavy metagame - human, eldrazi, shop - that would make sense to consider those.
Right now testing with a Timetwister and a 3rd preordain in those slots. Quite smooth

[Pox22]

I would consider a second Tezzeret instead of the Tendrils. It's a dead draw and you only want to see it when you've already won anyway--where Tezzeret is great at anytime you can cast it. I run 2 Tezzerets and a Blightsteel and I have not yet found the need for more win conditions. I've won games where my Blightsteel was Swords'd and my Time Vault was Grudged--but Tezz ultimate still got me there.

[beder]

@Pox22 said:

I would consider a second Tezzeret instead of the Tendrils. It's a dead draw and you only want to see it when you've already won anyway--where Tezzeret is great at anytime you can cast it. I run 2 Tezzerets and a Blightsteel and I have not yet found the need for more win conditions. I've won games where my Blightsteel was Swords'd and my Time Vault was Grudged--but Tezz ultimate still got me there.

I believe we have experienced quite different situation then.
Tendrils has saved me a lot of games where Tezzeret wouldn t have done it. Especially in situation where I had only one turn to win, one short window of opportunity and/or some opposing creatures ready to kill the planeswalker...
Let s not forget that there are many games where you will not go nuts, chain several paradoxical outcome, but you can still reach 8 -9storms through alternative way of generating storm. And that is often enough to win now, vs winning next turn.

[Pox22]

@beder Tezzeret is an instant-kill a surprising amount of the time--especially during a turn in which you have cast 8-10 spells. Time Walk or an untapped Voltaic Key make Tezzeret a kill--which is not unreasonable to put together even without chaining 2-3 Outcomes.

Tezzeret is a bomb that demands a counter and can be played before going off. Tendrils is a dead draw that requires an Outcome or Hurkyl's Recall to function.

[beder]

Over the last 10 days, I have been testing the main deck, with a full suite of 4 preordain, 1 Merchant scroll, no Brainstorm, no timetwister and a sundering titan instead of the memory jar as an aggressive mid game tinker target.

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal
1 Mana Vault

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Engineered Explosives

2 Ancient Tomb
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra

4 Force of Will
4 Paradoxical Outcome
4 Preordain
3 Mind Twist
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fragmentize
1 Balance

1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Sundering titan or Myr Battlesphere
1 Tendrils of Agony

I am very happy with how fun, fast and resilient this build is.
Few remarks below:

• The full suite of preordain helps being very consistent, fixing those hands that are not too broken and finding some broken spell to play. Preordain in this deck plays a very similar role as in a gush deck.
• So far, Sundering Titan or Myr Battlesphre are good option to play an early and aggressive tinker . Memory jar as a tinker target was quite good too but not ideal as it forces to pass a turn + exposes you to all the counters during the next turn. Finally, it was not synergistic with the mind twist.
• Mind Twist are a spectacular way to use the variable high number of available off color mana. This has definitely been an all star in this list
• Mana base is solid and fast. Having two island is very solid against mana denial strategy. Ancient tomb main deck is also great. Combined with all the mana accelerant, it consistently gives you access to a lot of colorless mana to play broken spells - Paradoxical or Mindtwist or Artifact (sensei, key, vault)
• The package made of "Engineered explosive + Chain of vapor + Fragmentized + Balance" is versatile and offers at least two outs against most of the main disruption strategies. Also it can be used aggressively against opponent s mana sources.

Overall, 50-60% of the game are won through key vault, 15-20% through tinker creature and 20-30% through tendrils.
The deck is very fast and consistently wins turn 2 or turn 3. It also consistently powers a large mind twist early game that puts opponents way behind and give you time to start comboing.

[darkquarterer]

@beder Looks interesting! What's the sideboard plan?

[beder]

@darkquarterer

So far I am not 100% clear about the sideboard. At the moment, this is what I am considering .

1 Plain
1 Fragmentize
2 Sword/path effect
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Toxic deluge
1 Moat
2 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughseize
3 Tormod's crypt
1 Grafdigger cage
1 Repeal

But I could also consider a more transformational approach, with monastery mentors or with oath. I definitely haven't made up my mind yet.

[BazaarOfBaghdad]

Excepting Dredge probably, the inherent synergy of the shell pieces and draw engine make it more important, compared to other decks, to identify which cards you would consider taking out, and in what numbers, before you really want to identify what to bring in. The deck could always use counterspells/removal, but not to the point the deck is too diluted.

For example:

• -1 Land, whenever not playing a Wasteland deck

• -1 LED (Petal, Chrome Mox) when playing a Null Rod deck so as to remove your weakest artifact

• -1 Balance, when playing other artifact-hungry decks on the draw

• -1 Snapcaster, if on Oath plan, or maybe against Shops

• -1 Storm card, if any, if against Shops

[etc.]. Now that I got the ball rolling, can anyone finish the list?

[beder]

@BazaarOfBaghdad said:

Excepting Dredge probably, the inherent synergy of the shell pieces and draw engine make it more important, compared to other decks, to identify which cards you would consider taking out, and in what numbers, before you really want to identify what to bring in. The deck could always use counterspells/removal, but not to the point the deck is too diluted.

This is a very valid remark. And this is why the construction of the sideboard is actually pretty tricky.

If we put aside the "Transformational Sideboard" approach and adopt more classic approach of sideboarding, here are the main objectives to address:

A) Address opponent disruption:

• 1st liability - Null rod effect
• 2nd liability - Artifact sphere effect and Creature sphere effect
• 3rd liability - Creatures with a highly disruptive effect on draw and/or storm
• 4th liability - Wall of counters - flusterstorm, blast and/or drain - from control oriented blue deck

and of course B) Disrupt opponent strategy

In the end, here is what I would do

Blue Gush deck (mentor or pyromancer)
-1 Fragmentize, -1 Chain, -1 Creature Tinker target
+2 Flusterstorm, + 1 Thougtseize, +1 Toxic Deluge

Mirror Combo or other aggressive blue-black spell based deck
-1 Fragmentize, -1 Engineer, -1 Balance, -1 Chain
+2 Flusterstorm, + 1 Thougtseize, +1 Repeal

Oath
-1 Balance, -1 Tinker Target, -1 Ancient tomb
+1 Graffediger cage, +1 Fragmentize, +1 Repeal

Human (or other disruption focus creature deck)
-1 Ancient tomb, -1 Mind twist, -1 Sensei, -1 Grim, -1 Merchant scroll
+1 Plain, +1 Fragmentize, +2 Sword/path effect, +1 Toxic deluge

Strong aggro such as Eldrazi with 4 spheres
-2 Mind twist, -1 Merchant scroll, -1 Preordain, -1 Tezzeret
+1 Plain, +1 Fragmentize, +2 Sword/path effect,+1 Moat

Shops with 8 spheres
-3 Mind twist, -2 Preordain, - 1 Tezzeret
+1 Plain, +1 Fragmentize, +2 Sword/path effect,+1 Moat, 1 Hurkyll's,

Dredge
-3 Mind twist, -1 Sensei, -1 Creature tinker target
+1 Moat, + 3 Tormod s crypt, +1 Grafdiger cage,