September 2016 Banned and Restricted List updates

It is interesting that the main data cited relates to Workshop decks (being quite successful), and yet discussion is more heavily focused on instants and sorceries. That being said, most of the discussion relates to un-restricting cards, which feels very positive!

Favourite decks/cards aside, looking at the format as a whole, does anyone feel like there is a card (or cards) that need to be restricted, and there is sufficient data backing the claim?

Restrict Oath, FoW, Mishra's Workshop, and Bazaar....unrestrict fastbond, demonic tutor, necropotence.

Fun meta it will be.

If the restricted list is based at all on Diversifying the meta, then Gush should get the Axe again, and I still feel that Lotus Petal and Windfall are fine. Ponder is too strong. IMO Preordain and Git Probe are restriction worthy. Too much deck manipulation is a thing, it should still be a "random" card game, and if it was what some ppl want (4 gush, bs, ordain, ponder, git probe, merchant scroll, 1 acall, cruise, dig) leaves you with essentially a 20 card deck. You would "draw" your deck faster than Dredge with almost fewer lands. Channel is way too powerful with Eldrazi. Turn one ESG channel into a TKS and Null Rod or Thorn is just GG.

My guess tho is nothing will change.

The fact that some folks think Merchant Scroll is unrestrictable I guess just reminds me how deeply perceptions are shaped by experience, and what an old man I've become 😛 In 2008, I believed that the card that most deserved restriction was Scroll, not Brainstorm, Ponder, Flash or Gush. Unrestricting Merchant Scroll seems more plausible in an environment with 4 Misstep and 4 Flusterstorm, but I still believe it's one of the best tutors in existence. From a purely metagame-diversity standpoint, I do believe that Flash is unrestrictable. It might not create alot of fun games, but I don't think there is any chance that it would dominate. Every Flash combo today relies too heavily on the graveyard, and we have too many good anti-graveyard cards for it to be a real threat. Especially with Scroll and Brainstorm restricted, and people playing maindeck Pyroblasts.

@xouman said:

Channel seemed interesting, but as somebody pointed, a green eldrazi deck would be a problem, not to speak of Emrakul's oath with S&T and 4 channels.

So what if it spawns a new archetype? Green Eldrazi would be super cool in my opinion. As long as the pillars are balanced, it doesn't matter if the individual card choice is broken. We all know Workshop and Bazaar are broken, but they enable independent archetypes. I think one consisting of combo-fatties would be fun, and could easily be metagamed against if too disruptive. It would make FoW more relevant again, which is probably a good thing.

last edited by BazaarOfBaghdad

Unrestrict Brainstorm.

Restrict Gush.

There are a lot of other cards in the restricted list that are jokes compared to cards currently legal as 4-ofs.

last edited by Hrishi

Cards to restrict:
None right now, the meta is still shifting a lot. I'd love it to settle first.

Cards to unrestrict:
Below are my picks for very likely safe cards, two of those should be unrestricted. Alphabetical order.

  • Channel
  • Flash
  • Imperial Seal
  • Memory Jar
  • Ponder
  • Windfall

Time of the full on only spells and mana decks is pretty much over I think. I don't see a deck with 4 Ponder 4 Preordain and running multiples of Windfall (which was always the card #60 in storm builds recently). Memory Jar's mana cost is also prohibitive, and if it is ever included then as a one-of Tinker target.

If Channel get's unbanned, I will dust off my Lich's Mirrors!!!

I think Flash / imperial seal and maybe yawgmoth's Bargain or Memory Jar could be unrestricted.

If people complain about oath of druids already, are you sure you want to unrestrict Channel?

Oath+mox+1of4orchard = turn 2 fattie.
V.S.
channel + land + 1of7esg/lotus/petal/moxE + fattie = turn 1 fattie with eldrazi casting triggers.
channel + land + land + fattie = turn 2 see above.

This is both MUCH scarier than just the fattie turn 2 via oath. Just saying. Oh, got no counter? too bad. got priest/cage/swords/path/other answers? well, too bad. my thing has a time walk attached and protection from things. oh, and that one counters your things and fills up my hand.

I also still think 4x merchant scroll is too strong, but I would be up for unrestriction if just to give me an excuse to play gush WITH FASTBOND again.

People wanting to unrestrict fastbond while gush is unrestricted: Yeah, sure... top idea.

Hi folks, as someone who hasnt been around for more than few years I would like to hear more thoughts about the card Windfall. Why it was originally restricted and when? Why some people feel it's safe to unrestrict and also if someone is against restriction. I don't care to make a poll if it should be restricted or unrestricted, but would like to see how people would argue for it.

@peterflugzeug Throw in unrestricted imperial seal that would allow unrestricted channel - Emrakul decks to carefully assemble their un-counterable game winning hands.

@yugular Windfall was restricted in 1998 when it was released together with many other powerful cards in the Urzas Block. It was also banned in Standard, Expented and Legacy, together with its best buddy: Tolarian Academy. I did not play at the time, but from what i learned Academy based decks where able to abuse this to an insane extend, since dropping your whole hand full of artifact mana on the board on turn 1 and generating large amounts of mana was easily possible. Keep in mind, powerful artifact based acceleration like grim monolith, lotus petal, mana crypt, mana vault and mox diamond where not restricted until september of the following year (tinker was unrestricted until that point as well) . All a deck like this needed was a win condition and a way to dig though the deck, finding more mana and more digging. A unrestricted Windfall is very powerful filling that role after you dropped your hand on turn 1 often drawing you the full hand size of your opponent.

A unrestricted potential draw 7 for 3 mana, gets very powerful if enough potent mana acceleration is available. I say potential, but if you are consistent enough to drop your hand and windfall on turn 1, this does a pretty good interpretation of Timetwister. Having basically a deck that mostly consists of draw 7s and artifact mana, it is also not unlikely to chain them together.

Take that with a grain of salt, i didnt play at the time.

EDIT: Correction, at the time Windfall was restricted Tinker and Grim Monolith where not released yet.

last edited by Aelien

Windfall got restricted with a slew of other cards during Urzas Block (Saga, Legacy, Destiny) because of Tolarian Academy. People played with a deck with full Power 9 plus 4 Mana Crypt, 4 Mana Vault, 4 Lotus Petal, and 4 Academy. This allowed them to almost consistently have enough mana to cast Windfall, Time Spiral (both also 4 ofs) or Twister or Jar turn 1 every game, constantly drawing 7 cards and producing more and more mana. Turn 1 drop a million mana, cast Windfall, draw 7 was way too easy and common. Today not only are people playing way cheaper decks, but are also playing loot cards to make hands smaller (dack), cards that stop draw (notion theif, spirit), cards that make it cost more (Thalia, Spheres, Thorns etc), and new counters (flusterstorm, mindbreak trap) that all make this card weaker or completelt null (topdeck wars, or versus Dredge which did not exist at the time, Dredge alone makes this card horrible, or "ok" if dredge ran it itself and managed to get 3 mana to cast it, but considering most dredge lists dont use Wheel or the one copy of Windfall allowed them I dont know if this would change anything as a 4 of etc). Without the full mana rocks and 4 of Academy, Windfall has not been what it was for years, a 3 mana draw 7, and anything past turn one or 2 is prolly no better than a sorcery speed draw 3-4 at best. This makes it "worse" than Gifts, FoF, and Thirst which all have been unrestricted. Honestly Windfall should of been unrestricted when Time Spiral and Stroke of Genious got unrestricted. Hope that clears that up as to why it got Axed, and why it should not be now.

Green Eldrazi is probably one of the least degenerate things you can do with 4X Channel...They just printed a 4 mana artifact that gains you increasing amounts of life for each spell that gets cast and serves as a Tendrils later on. And people are worried about Green Eldrazi...SMH

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Shout out to the people recommending Flash, Merchant Scroll, and Channel. You are funny.

@peterflugzeug said:

I think Flash / imperial seal and maybe yawgmoth's Bargain or Memory Jar could be unrestricted.

If people complain about oath of druids already, are you sure you want to unrestrict Channel?

Oath+mox+1of4orchard = turn 2 fattie.
V.S.
channel + land + 1of7esg/lotus/petal/moxE + fattie = turn 1 fattie with eldrazi casting triggers.
channel + land + land + fattie = turn 2 see above.

This is both MUCH scarier than just the fattie turn 2 via oath. Just saying. Oh, got no counter? too bad. got priest/cage/swords/path/other answers? well, too bad. my thing has a time walk attached and protection from things. oh, and that one counters your things and fills up my hand.

But it's a 3 card combo, Channel, Green IMS, Emrakul. Oath is miserable because you don't glut up your deck with 8 uncastable pieces of shit. You play 2-3. Oath is a one card combo. Oath. Orchard Oath qualifies as a two card combo. The chance of having a 7 of, a land, then a 4 of, then let's say 1 of 8 fatties isn't great.

Most game ones aren't that different between mox, orchard, oath go and ESG, Channel, Land, Emrakul. We're going on to game 2 either way. Game two any counters and discard are as good vs. Channel as vs. storm.

I think Channel and some of the nutty artifacts might be a bigger problem because generally they are actually castable without Channel.

It would be so weird to lay a deck out and be looking at 4 Channels. Who even owns 4 signed Beta Channels?

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