so i tried doing a search for this card and it came up empty which is wierd cause im sure there was a thread on it already somewhere.

anyways

collective brutality 1B
escalate
duress/disfigure/tendilrs 1 copy

i am considering changing my discard package from 3xduress 3xtherapy to 2xtherapy 4xbrutality

has anyone played with the card and knows if its any good in storm? is 4 of it too many? would a 2/2/2 split of duress therapies and brutality be better? the fact that it kills bears and force of will is really whats drawing me in here.

2-mana tendrils if you draw 10+ cards... Maybe there's something to this

@ajfirecracker said:

2-mana tendrils if you draw 10+ cards... Maybe there's something to this

To be clear, --7/13/2016: You can’t choose any one mode multiple times.

@spook well boo. 2-mana Duress with a Shock option might be good enough but I would be surprised

i wouldnt run many, but its a fine 1 of, that gives you more removal against creatures in game 1. The drain mode is very very rarely important. 2 mana duress isn't really good, and that's what the card will be used most for, but having it as a 1 of "bad duress" with other modes to diversify your possible interaction can be fine.
2x therapy 4xbrutality sounds like a discard suite iam happy to go up against with bluecounters.dec

@Evoclipse noted. i think i will try the 2/2/2 split and see how that goes next weekend.

also it dodges mistep. which has a non 0 ammount of relavence. maybe 3 therapy 2 duress 1 brutality main 1 side

Would love to see a good deck that can make Collective Brutality part of its core. They're already doing this in Modern with Goryo's Vengeance reanimator.

Of course, for this to translate to Vintage the combo deck needs to care about -2/-2. Wonder what kind of metagame elements would make that happen...

@ribby i just want you to know that when i die to a 4/4 thot not with this card in my hand im going to blame you. for no other reason than that comment right there

@snowydude word!

Is Thought Knot Seer itself that bad for you? Storm combo is least likely to care about the 4/4.

The first order killers are the tax effects. Your best response is probably just to maximize your odds of winning faster, and then play the odds. That's the kind of deck Storm is - high variance, high reward.

@ribby i've lost more games to thot not than thorn affects. thoughtseize on a 4/4 is pretty good as it turns out. i really hate thot not

@snowydude you have lost a lot of games to TKS with nothing else on the board?

I'm finding that statement incongruous with my experience of how Storm generally does its thing. It usually survives turn 2/3 Duress followed by a 3-4 turn window.

@ribby can't duress thot not.can duress sphere of resistance. so its usually turn 2 thot not into t3 thot not and then i have no action. is how i lose.

i didnt say i lost alot of games to thot not i said i lost more games to thot not than i do thorn.

@snowydude said:

@ribby can't duress thot not.can duress sphere of resistance. so its usually turn 2 thot not into t3 thot not and then i have no action. is how i lose.

i didnt say i lost alot of games to thot not i said i lost more games to thot not than i do thorn.

I mean it can survive getting Duressed, by the other deck, which is what TKS in isolation is if you're a deck like Storm that can handle the presence of an opposing 4/4 for a few turns.

If you have no action after a single Duress effect against you... Well your deck and card choices probably need a review.

Brining this back to Collective Brutality... it won't help you against TKS but it is a flexible slot that can play a role in the Eldrazi and Gush matchups. But the cost is really inefficient which is not the direction Storm needs to go to survive. So there's that.

@ribby well generally i top 4 the local vintage events with storm so im not sure survive is the right term. but i generally test a card for at least 2 events before i dismiss it off hand.... except pac rat that one i just dismiss offhand.

so what do you mean the direction storm needs to go?

wait i forgot leyline of the void/sanctity is also usually in play along with thot not. stupid jaco deck.

This card is shit in storm for sure. If you're paying 1B instead of B to duress me I am THRILLED.

The other modes are mediocre at best. People are forgetting you can't escalate the same mode multiple times.

This card had a place in Legacy reanimator, as it serves a similar role to Entomb if you have a fatty in your hand.

T1 Dark ritual, cast this to remove a counter and see if it is safe, and drain because why not, all while pitching grizzlebrand or Sire of insanity or something, then reanimate.

Reainmator has not been a thing in Vintage for some time because of dredge, but if it ever did come back I could imagine this being a part of it. Storm however you need your spells to be a cost efficient as possible, and duress is better for that reason.

@Protoaddct said:

This card had a place in Legacy reanimator, as it serves a similar role to Entomb if you have a fatty in your hand.

T1 Dark ritual, cast this to remove a counter and see if it is safe, and drain because why not, all while pitching grizzlebrand or Sire of insanity or something, then reanimate.

Reainmator has not been a thing in Vintage for some time because of dredge, but if it ever did come back I could imagine this being a part of it. Storm however you need your spells to be a cost efficient as possible, and duress is better for that reason.

by that logic should i just be playing thoughtseize?

@Protoaddct said:

Reainmator has been a thing in Vintage for some time because of dredge

FTFY

@snowydude said:

collective brutality 1B
escalate
duress/disfigure/tendilrs 1 copy

Lets make one thing clear: This is NOT a duress effect. It only takes instants and sorceries. This might not seem like a big differens if the main reason to cast duress (and this card) is to take counterspells anyway, but this does not take: Thorns and Sphere effects, tangle wire, JtMS or other walkers, arcane laboratory, null rod, stoney silence, grafiggers cage, rest in piece, etc...
Pared with the downside of the 2 mana cost, that like @Soly said will make most blue control players happy if you spend that many to take counter magic from them, and i think this card is only good if you are able to abuse it as a discard outlet.

Still, if you are willing to try it as a 1 of, i would be glad to see how it performed.

If we get to the point where people are just playing fair creature decks with some broken support spells, this could have a place if you can also abuse the discard outlet. Black of all colors has a number of ways to do that, even if it is as simple as you playing an agro black deck with bloodghasts, in which case this can often equate to a removal spell with a 4 point life swing on it (6 if the ghasts are hasty)

I do not think we are at that point yet.