Eldrazi mirror tech
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Hello all - I am new here (and to Vintage, really) but I have finally finished a list in paper that I intend to play at some upcoming side events at the Sydney GP. As the title suggests, I've built Eldrazi. I also suspect that there'll be more than one Eldrazi list at these events as it's one of the 'cheaper' ways to get a foot in the format. With this in mind, I'm wondering if anyone has any insights as to what could be good tech against an Eldrazi opponent in the mirror, rather than just racing to cast a Newlamog out of the side?
I've been toying with the idea of a Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, or Jitte which have seen play with Eldrazi in other formats, but I'm just not quite convinced... Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I'm on the Colo[u]rless / Black list as per below...
Land (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Strip Mine
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x WastelandCreature (23)
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Endless One
2x Matter Reshaper
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot SeerInstant (6)
3x Dismember
3x Warping WailArtifact (6)
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
4x Null RodFinally, sorry if there has been other posts on this. I couldn't find anything in the search!
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i personally have not played eldrazi and i havnt played against it much but to me it seems that crucible of worlds would be good against them, recur your wasteland effects to mana screw them, and when they waste you you can get the land back and you can end up with a mana advantage, maybe as a two of in the sideboard, plus it has splash damage against shops.
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@letseeker More crucibles seems reasonable! Cheers!
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Well, first things first you want to be able to side out the junk you no longer need for relevant cards.
3x warping wail
4 x null rod
1 x ChaliceThat is 8 cards right there, so a lot of room to play. Things I would consider
- 4th dismember - for obvious reasons, has other sideboard applications against other lists.
- Waste - If they are on the ghost quarter plan, this is a nice land to have a copy of in the deck. Can be totally unexpected and lead to a real blowout, and works well otherwise with crucible as they only have so many ways to deal with it. Good against bloodmoon as well.
- Extra Crucibles - For obvious reasons
- Black lotus, sol ring, mana crypt - So interestingly enough, these become really quite strong if you are in a position where you can side out your null rods. Landing a turn 1 Thought Knot is really strong in a mirror match like this one. It feels strange to say play lotus in your side, but there it is. Against other decks where you would side out these cards like most white hatebears decks, they are also very good. I think the moxes though are just not good enough so i would stick to Sol, crypt, and lotus.
- Jitte - Card is an established game winner, and if you can suddenly play it, it remains as such. Sol lands mean you can have this active as early as turn 2
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@Protoaddct said:
- Black lotus, sol ring, mana crypt - So interestingly enough, these become really quite strong if you are in a position where you can side out your null rods. Landing a turn 1 Thought Knot is really strong in a mirror match like this one. It feels strange to say play lotus in your side, but there it is. Against other decks where you would side out these cards like most white hatebears decks, they are also very good. I think the moxes though are just not good enough so i would stick to Sol, crypt, and lotus.
This is a little out of my league, unfortunately. But something I'll keep in mind if I can borrow for paper, or if I go in on MODO for Vintage. I do own a Crypt and obviously Sol Rings in paper... but would they be worth it? I am finding it hard to judge!
Right now my WIP board looks like this (based off Jason Jaco's colourless deck that came 10th at NYSE IV):
4x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Spatial Contortion
1x Warping WailThe Leylines of Sanctity were in there for storm stuff... but could also be good against Endbringers and Thought-Knots if I brought them in? Seems bad and not totally worth it. Would that be better than the Wails, Rods and Chalice?
Thinking that changing the Wail and/or a Contortion in the in the board for a Waste, Dismember, Jitte or further Crucible now though. DECISIONS.
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Warping Wail? WTF?
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You do not want to side out Warping Wail in the mirror. It kills opposing Mimics (or if against White Eldrazi, kills like 1/2 of their creatures). You can side out Null Rod in the unpowered "JacoDrazi" mirror for more removal, but you're honestly not that likely to face it.
My latest list has cut another Matter Reshaper for another Crucible main. I'm working on finishing up a very long piece for publication hopefully early this week that will be on EC.
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Looking forward to that. i play white eldrazi but i am tempted to go in on the tribal version for a bit.
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If you are playing white eldrazi, turns out that new Thalia is pretty good in the mirror. I have also really liked some number of stoneforges in the matchup for both Jitte and Batterskull.
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I feel like white eldrazi is a version of Vintage Death and Taxes and I like that. That WhiteTrash builds are forgoing the SFM package but I might look into it if I can work the new Thalia into my build.
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Forcefield is the mirror breaker.
But no one plays the card for whatever reason and unlike other cards on the reserve list, it hasn't spiked.
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If you are not using Null Rod in said mirror and don't think your opponent will, you should try out Skullclamp. Absolute Powerhouse and nearly unbeatable in a creature based mirror. All the cards!
I'm not so sure Forcefield will do much in a mirror, as threats will be mainly traded anyway, won't they?
Just an idea, never played the deck
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Crucibles and Razormane Masticores.
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@nedleeds said:
Crucibles and Razormane Masticores.
Razormane just seems generally powerful at the moment with so many creatures running around. I'm surprised it hasn't popped up in a shops list.
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@Cambriel said:
@nedleeds said:
Crucibles and Razormane Masticores.
Razormane just seems generally powerful at the moment with so many creatures running around. I'm surprised it hasn't popped up in a shops list.
I would think the discard aspect makes it less than desirable. A powerful effect is not enough to justify play (otherwise we'd see time stretch in every blue deck). With the rampant artifact removal, dacks and STPS/path of exile, coupled with shops inability to draw cards efficiently masticore just doesn't seem like a good T1 card right now.
Plus with the ability of mentor to generate more tokens than masticore can mow down, pyromancer tokens, eldrazi decks etc, masticore doesn't seem like a viable beatstick. A 4/4 that costs you card advantage doesn't cut it.
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@studderingdave See the results of the TSI from this weekend to see my latest take on the deck, with 4x new thalia and playing stoneforge.
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@Khahan said:
Plus with the ability of mentor to generate more tokens than masticore can mow down, pyromancer tokens, eldrazi decks etc, masticore doesn't seem like a viable beatstick. A 4/4 that costs you card advantage doesn't cut it.
Wrong Masticore. At 5/5 first strike, Razormane lines up a lot better against the whole eldrazi deck. It races very aggressively. The discard is a real cost, but if it's being spent popping off Mimics and Displacers it isn't so bad. I'll happily pitch a Thorn or something if it kills a Displacer, and binning lands with Crucible is as strong now as it ever was.
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@Cambriel said:
@Khahan said:
Plus with the ability of mentor to generate more tokens than masticore can mow down, pyromancer tokens, eldrazi decks etc, masticore doesn't seem like a viable beatstick. A 4/4 that costs you card advantage doesn't cut it.
Wrong Masticore. At 5/5 first strike, Razormane lines up a lot better against the whole eldrazi deck. It races very aggressively. The discard is a real cost, but if it's being spent popping off Mimics and Displacers it isn't so bad. I'll happily pitch a Thorn or something if it kills a Displacer, and binning lands with Crucible is as strong now as it ever was.
Ahh yes. the first strike certainly helps it against other creatures it would normally trade with (if it didn't have first strike). But again, in this meta, a discard every turn only to lose it to exile or stp or have it stolen by dack or hit with shattering spree, nature's claim or any other pretty common artifact removal. So the razormane would do better than what I laid out above but I still think it falls short unless you incorporate some kind of card draw into your shops deck. I have certainly seen lists that do this. But not in eldrazi shops yet.
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@Cambriel If we are thinking out of the box here, you can always make accommodations to your list to power manticores discard, provided he really is powerful enough an answer. You could go as far as running Squee in your list, but I would think doubling down on Crucible and pitching and playing lands would be the more desirable way to go.
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@Khahan said:
@Cambriel said:
@nedleeds said:
Crucibles and Razormane Masticores.
Razormane just seems generally powerful at the moment with so many creatures running around. I'm surprised it hasn't popped up in a shops list.
I would think the discard aspect makes it less than desirable. A powerful effect is not enough to justify play (otherwise we'd see time stretch in every blue deck). With the rampant artifact removal, dacks and STPS/path of exile, coupled with shops inability to draw cards efficiently masticore just doesn't seem like a good T1 card right now.
Plus with the ability of mentor to generate more tokens than masticore can mow down, pyromancer tokens, eldrazi decks etc, masticore doesn't seem like a viable beatstick. A 4/4 that costs you card advantage doesn't cut it.
a) He asked for Eldrazi mirror tech not it's viability vs. Dack Fayden, Mentor and 'artifact removal'
b) You have the wrong Masticore
