So, it was pointed out to me that two of the new cards from Eldritch Moon are really best buddies with Quiet Speculation; Curious Humonculous and Bedlam Reveler. One speculation flips your Humonculous, and thereafter you get to pay U + 2 life to draw a card three times out of the yard AND pump your Humonculous along the way. Seems pretty sick. One speculation also almost completely pays for Reveler. Both have Prowess, so they work fine with a Mentor-type list.

At the outset, I'm pretty sure any deck that relies on the yard like this is doomed to be worse than dredge but hosed by dredge hate, so I don't expect this to be something competitive.

I'm also pretty sure that vertical growth, even as cool as it is on these guys, is still just a nobo in a world of tokens.

But, the nugget is there, and I wanted to talk about whether this is something worth exploring.

Here's a draft list to think about:

CURIOUS AND QUIET MENTOR

Creatures (8)

3 Curious Humonculous
4 Monestary Mentor
1 Bedlam Reveler

Spells (33)

6 Mox+Lotus
1 A Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
2 Quiet Speculation
3 Mental Misstep
2 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Pyroblast
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Time Walk
2 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Deep Analysis
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Flash of Defiance

Lands (18)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island

The idea here is to take the usual Mentor shell, but give it some vertical growth in the form of Reveler and Humoncolous. Running Quiet Speculation also gives us an interesting answer to opponent's token swarms in the form of Flash of Defiance. Doesn't get past Pyromancer tokens, but it does let us alpha right past an opposing Mentor or white hatebears.

I dunno, seemed interesting enough for discussion.

I feel like if your going to put flashback spells in your yard you need to have cabal therapys as an option. also aren't 3 copies of deep anal quite a bit? the front side is 4 mana afterall.

what about mystic retrieval so that we can get back things like recall and dig? this seems like it has potential but im not sure were in the right coolors yet.

Really appreciate the outside the box thinking on this list. With what you are going for, however, isn't intuition just better than quiet speculation? I get 1 extra mana but at instant speed with infinitely more flexibility and the same outcome...perhaps there can be room for both, this is just my initial observation. I have been waiting for a card that can bring intuition - Accumulated Knowledge back in a big blue shell, maybe this Humonculous is that card.

Again, love the concept, just not sure if quiet spec makes the cut over intuition.

@p3temangus said:

Really appreciate the outside the box thinking on this list. With what you are going for, however, isn't intuition just better than quiet speculation? I get 1 extra mana but at instant speed with infinitely more flexibility and the same outcome...perhaps there can be room for both, this is just my initial observation. I have been waiting for a card that can bring intuition - Accumulated Knowledge back in a big blue shell, maybe this Humonculous is that card.

Again, love the concept, just not sure if quiet spec makes the cut over intuition.

Intuition is a better card, but Speculation is cheaper. Even adding a land and the Humonculous, this list still seems a bit mana-greedy. Remember, I proposed cutting Gush to add the Analysis, so that hurts the mana base, too.

Intuition might be better if we were in Esper or Grixis, maybe...?

oh man i want to snap caster some accumulated knowledges that sounds sweet.

also at what point do we start adding gifts ungiven back into the this comparison? there wasa a really strong vintage gifts/teachings deck some number of yeaars ago, is speculation even as good as either of those 2 cards?

@snowydude And with this homunculus dude you can snapcaster - AK for the same cost as snapcaster - ancestral...and maybe even for an extra card!

said:

lation? I get 1 extra mana but at instant speed with infinitely more flexibility and the same outcome...perhaps there can be room for both, this is just my initial observation. I have been waiting for a card that can bring intuition - Accumulated Knowledge back in a big blue shell, maybe this Humonculous is that card.

Again, love the concept, just not sure if quiet spec makes the c

I actually think this list would be better with Young Pyro and run it almost like storm. A t1 pyro with some counter magic back up, Gitaxian probes, and Speculation into 3 cabal therapies is absolutely back breaking against a lot of lists. the Homonclous in that case is just a very good beater.

I tired to build this way back when Young Pyro just came out but the list just never came together right. I think it was just the shape of the meta at the time. I actually think now with lodestone and chalice restricted something like this could do really well, though the humonculous seems a bit like just a player at that point and not the core of the list.

I was fascinated with quiet speculation since I saw some Buried Alive decks. However, as you pointed out, any quiet speculation deck seems worse than dredge (even more without bazaars). Here are some cards I was interested, apart from the most obvious:

-Seize the day: I have ever wondered if this card is playable, even in current pyromancer or mentor decks. Probably win more, but it's a kind of re playable time walk in the proper build.

-Faithless looting: Maybe one of the worst flashback cards to search with quiet speculation, but it's a nice card to draw into, and late game is draw 4 with not much drawback (assuming you have lands and other flashback cards in hand)

-Lava dart: 2 spells for 1 mountain. Kill some relevant dudes and 2 spells work wonders with pyromancers and mentors, while cleaning space for attacking.

Those are fine cards, but I remember messing with Therapy and Dart when Pyromancer originally was printed and they were a big dud. The problem, I think, was that those cards were consistently just doing LESS than other cards could do to generate the same synergies with Pyromancer. That is, sure, you can tap and sac a Mountain to burn 2 and make 2 tokens, but you're better off doing something other than 2 points of burn to get those tokens. Humonculous doesn't help those cards, either.

The interesting thing, to me, was that Humonculous + Intuition / Speculation is a two card combo that, for 2UU (or only 1UU if you wait a turn so the creature can tap for mana to help) nets you a 3/4 Prowess, a permanent cost reduction, and the ability to pay U and 3 life to draw 2 cards three times. That seems very powerful -- moreso that having some Lava Darts ready to go. Still, it does require you to have cards you never want to draw naturally (Deep Anal specifically).