Homuncu-Storm [Intro and mini-primer]
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So I saw a card spoiled in EM that looks very promising. For those of you who are unaware: here's a link to the card:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/eldritch-moon/27288-curious-homunculus
Curious Homunculus
1U
Creature - Homunculus
*T: Add C to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast an instant or sorcery spell.At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are three or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, transform Curious Homunculus.
1/1
and here's a link to the flip side:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/eldritch-moon/27289-voracious-reader
Voracious Reader
Creature - Eldrazi Homunculus
Prowess
Instant and Sorcery spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
3/4
So. . . . . how is this guy any better than the unplayable Goblin Electromancer you ask? My answer: in every possible way that matters.
- This guy is a turn 1 play off any mox and a land.
- This guy has Prowess once flipped and can be a viable beat-stick
- There are interesting interactions with instant speed spells as you can use his tap ability with the flip trigger on the stack to create colorless mana for a spell you will cast on the upkeep he flips.
On that note, here's my list:
Homuncu-Storm
Lands (13):
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of AlexandriaArtifacts (7):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana CryptEnchantments (1):
1 NecropotenceCreatures (6):
4 Dark Confidant
2 Curious HomunculusInstants (14):
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
3 Intuition
1 Rushing River
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 BrainstormSorceries (18):
1 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark PetitionSideboard
4 Defense Grid
1 Rushing River
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Curious HomunculusSo you also might be asking yourself after seeing the list:
Where's the Mind's Desire? Where's the Yawgmoth's Bargain? Where's the Wheel of Fortune? Where are the preordains?
My simple answer is they don't make the cut. Bargain is a terrible flip to bob and so is Desire. Desire is closer to being playable, but I tend to like Desire in more academy centric versions of Petition Storm and this deck is an entirely different animal.
The key linchpin to this list is Intuition. This card is so bonkers with Curious Homunculus it isn't even funny. The typical line that you might use to win is this:
- Upkeep respond to flipping Homunculus by tapping for colorless.
- Let flip trigger resolve and then cast Intuition for the 1 colorless you just floated + U.
- Get 3 copies of Cabal Ritual. Move to mainphase.
- Cast Cabal Ritual for B and add BBBBB (you should have threshold by now if you've been, ya know , casting anything and then your 1 intuition).
- Cast Dark Petition for 2BB and float a B and add BBB. You now have BBBB floating still.
- Cast Yawg Will for 1B and you still have BB floating.
- Recast your Cabal Rituals each for B and get a shitload of mana.
- Win with Petition for Tendrils.
Now this isn't even that hard a scenario to set up and it happens a lot. Obviously this doesn't assume countermagic at all, but that is a reason we run 4 grid in the sideboard and 3 maindeck Cabal Therapies. Also, You don't even have to win this way often. Often you can just mini-tendrils twice for the win or swing with homunculus + bob for a bit and then mini-tendrils for the win. The deck is very flexible in the role it can assume. I am still tweaking things about the deck so I'd appreciate input, but I want folks to understand that this is a very carefully considered list and I'd appreciate it if folks didn't just write it off as terrible without providing some explanation for why they feel that way. I'm pretty excited about this list and I haven't really been that excited about anything "storm" related in a while.
Anyhoo, post away!
-Storm
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ok before i make statements about this homonculous, why are you playing rushing river over chain of vapor exactly?
ok now onto this 2 mana 1/1 so lets start with the spells it helps cast
4 Dark Petition
3 Cabal Ritual
3 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
that is 14 cards out of 60 so about 25% of the deck. compared to the modern storm deck where out buddy electromancer sees play this is very significantly less. and while in modern turning a pyretic ritual into a dark ritual is very significant (he nets about5-10 mana a game off rituals past in flames and manamorphs), in vintage you can at most get about 3 mana back from casting him. in your solution you gained 1 from cabal rit 1 from yawg will and 1 from petition. in additional you can't cast him the turn your going off you have to pass it back and hope he survives which turns on all the removal that storm usually gets to blank in a matchup. so we just lost both tempo, efficiency, and with the very low number of affected cards our synergy is not very high. all you've really added to the deck was a 2 mana blue ritual. that has suspend 1. im even giving you that every game he flips exactly 1 turn after you cast him and his usefulness is simply not something i am seeing. -
@snowydude said:
ok before i make statements about this homonculous, why are you playing rushing river over chain of vapor exactly?
ok now onto this 2 mana 1/1 so lets start with the spells it helps cast
4 Dark Petition
3 Cabal Ritual
3 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
that is 14 cards out of 60 so about 25% of the deck. compared to the modern storm deck where out buddy electromancer sees play this is very significantly less. and while in modern turning a pyretic ritual into a dark ritual is very significant (he nets about5-10 mana a game off rituals past in flames and manamorphs), in vintage you can at most get about 3 mana back from casting him. in your solution you gained 1 from cabal rit 1 from yawg will and 1 from petition. in additional you can't cast him the turn your going off you have to pass it back and hope he survives which turns on all the removal that storm usually gets to blank in a matchup. so we just lost both tempo, efficiency, and with the very low number of affected cards our synergy is not very high. all you've really added to the deck was a 2 mana blue ritual. that has suspend 1. im even giving you that every game he flips exactly 1 turn after you cast him and his usefulness is simply not something i am seeing.Rushing River over Chain is almost entirely because of the old "bounce your Sphere you bounce my Homunculus :(". I suppose I can't fear that play so much as to not run at least 1 chain though. I dunno. Seems like bad beats though when you need Homunculus to be in play in order to win.
As to your evaluation of Homunculus itself. I see your points on Instant/Sorcery density, but I also think that the power of those instants/sorceries is so high that the effect is potent. You also failed to say a single thing about his being a 3/4 Prowess dude upon flipping. That is not irrelevant at all. This deck doesn't play out as a "Tendrils you for 10 copies" type of deck hardly ever. I simply was trying to show you an example of the kinds of things the deck CAN do. You need to think a little more outside the box with this guy. Versus some of the most broken decks he might get sided out, but vs. grindier decks (a TON of the metagame right now is grindy) that might run static hate pieces (Thalia, Arcane Lab, Canonist, Spheres etc etc.) this guy has a lot of upward potential. You just can't always expect Tendrils for 10 copies to be a line open to you any more. Why not play around that need by doing something a bit different? This guy allows the deck to easily play through a sphere as well. That is another big reason for running Homunculus. He's only 2 maindeck because yes, in certain matchups, you don't really want him. Against gush with access to white and something like Aegis of the Gods I would easily leave 2 in after sideboard and possibly even go to 3-4 copies. He has obvious HUGE applications vs. shops and eldrazi as well.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
-Storm
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You just can't always expect Tendrils for 10 copies to be a line open to you any more
why not? if that statement is true then storm is not a tier 1 deck. and the logical answer is to change to mentor or shops or w/e.
also hes not a 3/4 with prowess hes a 1/1 that can potentialy turn into a 3/4. before that happens you might have to do somthing like block a thotnot. vintage has become a format where creature removal is not just 1 copy of lightning bolt in the board. his flip requirement is also not small 3 "spells" in the yard is not always possible. sometimes your opponent plays a rip or a leyline, sometimes you draw 4 moxes and a time twister. is this part of the reason your playing so many intuitions? it feels like it would be easier to actually play goblin electromancer and add in red rituals like rite of flame and a copy of past in flames.
3/4 stats arent bad especially with prowess. but its not like mentor you aren't going wide enough to get around anything in a creature match. and its not going to be big enough to race somthing like a grissledad. so if hes not winning creature games his 3/4 stats arent really doing much good.
you claim he has strong potential against shops/eldrazi. can you elaborate on this? because from my experience the best way to beat those 2 decks is to put a 11/11 infecting robot on the table and tell them they have to block the rest of the game
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@snowydude said:
You just can't always expect Tendrils for 10 copies to be a line open to you any more
why not? if that statement is true then storm is not a tier 1 deck. and the logical answer is to change to mentor or shops or w/e.
also hes not a 3/4 with prowess hes a 1/1 that can potentialy turn into a 3/4. before that happens you might have to do somthing like block a thotnot. vintage has become a format where creature removal is not just 1 copy of lightning bolt in the board. his flip requirement is also not small 3 "spells" in the yard is not always possible. sometimes your opponent plays a rip or a leyline, sometimes you draw 4 moxes and a time twister. is this part of the reason your playing so many intuitions? it feels like it would be easier to actually play goblin electromancer and add in red rituals like rite of flame and a copy of past in flames.
3/4 stats arent bad especially with prowess. but its not like mentor you aren't going wide enough to get around anything in a creature match. and its not going to be big enough to race somthing like a grissledad. so if hes not winning creature games his 3/4 stats arent really doing much good.
you claim he has strong potential against shops/eldrazi. can you elaborate on this? because from my experience the best way to beat those 2 decks is to put a 11/11 infecting robot on the table and tell them they have to block the rest of the game
I've tested against this Homunculus with Eldrazi, and I must say he is very good, making Mana is great, making spells cost less is great. Your assumption about putting Blightsteel into play is a good argument, but they can just World Breaker it away, which I have done to people. It's not "the best way to beat those decks."
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i have never seen anyone ever cast a world breaker in vintage.ever.
how did it feel -
@snowydude said:
You just can't always expect Tendrils for 10 copies to be a line open to you any more
why not? if that statement is true then storm is not a tier 1 deck. and the logical answer is to change to mentor or shops or w/e.
also hes not a 3/4 with prowess hes a 1/1 that can potentialy turn into a 3/4. before that happens you might have to do somthing like block a thotnot. vintage has become a format where creature removal is not just 1 copy of lightning bolt in the board. his flip requirement is also not small 3 "spells" in the yard is not always possible. sometimes your opponent plays a rip or a leyline, sometimes you draw 4 moxes and a time twister. is this part of the reason your playing so many intuitions? it feels like it would be easier to actually play goblin electromancer and add in red rituals like rite of flame and a copy of past in flames.
3/4 stats arent bad especially with prowess. but its not like mentor you aren't going wide enough to get around anything in a creature match. and its not going to be big enough to race somthing like a grissledad. so if hes not winning creature games his 3/4 stats arent really doing much good.
you claim he has strong potential against shops/eldrazi. can you elaborate on this? because from my experience the best way to beat those 2 decks is to put a 11/11 infecting robot on the table and tell them they have to block the rest of the game
You are really missing the forest for the trees here man. Stop focusing on all the things you THINK storm decks are supposed to be. Did I imply that you CAN'T storm for 10 copies some games? Of course I didn't. That is still a very valid line of play. Flipping him over is as easy as a git probe a therapy and a ritual. I'm sorry, but if you think that is a tall order than you need to learn some arithmetic. As for Leyline and RIP, of course those are bad cards to see, but you also have the option of going the Bob route in that case and just ignoring Will/Homunculus lines in favor of mini-tendrils lines. Running 3 copies of Tendrils really does open up the line of: "Mox, Ritual, Ritual, Git Probe, Tendrils you for 10 and that is likely lethal if you've already dealt yourself damage and I've cracked in with bob twice". This deck isn't an "all-in" storm deck at all. Stop trying to fit the square peg in into the triangular hole! And stop comparing this guy to Goblin Electromancer. That guy requires a Red Splash, is a 2/2 do-nothing on the ground, costs UR instead of 1U (hint hint: the latter is much more castable at various stages of the game), and doesn't tap to pump out Intuitions that will essentially cost you U instead of 2U. Homunculus is in a totally different league from Electromancer. Little things matter on magic cards. Little upgrades to a previous effect can make a card playable where a previous iteration wasn't. I'm not saying this card is the second coming or anything, but I do think it warrants way more consideration than you are giving it.
Potential vs. shops/eldrazi. Ummmmm. . . ANTI-SPHERE?!!! Is it that hard to connect those dots? With this guy in play you basically get to ignore a sphere on your rituals/bombs. How is that not good tech vs. those decks? Yeah, a Tinker --> BSC is good against Eldrazi you say? How about when it is Displaced every f-ing turn until you are dead. At that point, I'd rather have my Tendrils plan back seven days a week and twice on Sundays.
Also, I realize this guy isn't going wide. That isn't his goal. His goal is to plow through empty boards or to be decent on defense while I survive til the turn I'm going to Tendrils in my opponent's face.
Also, please realize that this is draft #1 of the deck. I'm sure I'll refine the numbers as I go and possibly even do crazier things with it as I find the cards that are strong and the cards that are weak. I might even run the defense grids main.
Peace,
-Storm
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@msg67183 said:
@snowydude said:
You just can't always expect Tendrils for 10 copies to be a line open to you any more
why not? if that statement is true then storm is not a tier 1 deck. and the logical answer is to change to mentor or shops or w/e.
also hes not a 3/4 with prowess hes a 1/1 that can potentialy turn into a 3/4. before that happens you might have to do somthing like block a thotnot. vintage has become a format where creature removal is not just 1 copy of lightning bolt in the board. his flip requirement is also not small 3 "spells" in the yard is not always possible. sometimes your opponent plays a rip or a leyline, sometimes you draw 4 moxes and a time twister. is this part of the reason your playing so many intuitions? it feels like it would be easier to actually play goblin electromancer and add in red rituals like rite of flame and a copy of past in flames.
3/4 stats arent bad especially with prowess. but its not like mentor you aren't going wide enough to get around anything in a creature match. and its not going to be big enough to race somthing like a grissledad. so if hes not winning creature games his 3/4 stats arent really doing much good.
you claim he has strong potential against shops/eldrazi. can you elaborate on this? because from my experience the best way to beat those 2 decks is to put a 11/11 infecting robot on the table and tell them they have to block the rest of the game
I've tested against this Homunculus with Eldrazi, and I must say he is very good, making Mana is great, making spells cost less is great. Your assumption about putting Blightsteel into play is a good argument, but they can just World Breaker it away, which I have done to people. It's not "the best way to beat those decks."
Or they hold it down with a Displacer if they are the white version.
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@snowydude said:
i have never seen anyone ever cast a world breaker in vintage.ever.
how did it feelHave you played Vintage recently? Eldrazi is everywhere!
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@msg67183 i played 6 roundsof vintage a couple weeks ago. and yes i know eldrazi are everwhere. world breaker on the otherhand.
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@snowydude Mark Hornung got second at Eternal Extravaganza with Tribal Eldrazi featuring two World Breakers in the main deck. It is very good I've heard.
