This cards seems pretty stellar and I'm curious to hear what all the blue mages think!
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last edited by Brass Man

I'm excited to test this one. There's probably a way to build around this, but I'm actually more interested in the card as a "Plan B" - maybe even a sideboard option, in a deck that otherwise wins without attacking.

I used to use Tarmogoyf in a similar capacity, but Tarmogoyf can't do that job the way it used to. This card can't do all the things Goyf can, but it handles some of those situations quite well

@Brass-Man I think this guy may be used in a whole new control deck. You get sweet stuff like phyrexian revoked too that aren't effected by its flip trigger.

Cavern of souls name horror is pretty high up on my favorite things to do.

Agreed, there's very possibly a Horror deck, but what would really be interesting to me is taking a deck with game against shops / storm but no game against aggro, and getting a compact, powerful option against critter decks.

@Brass-Man agreed, I'm excited for the new ideas this card brings out.

I'm excited to test with it. Unless Gush gets restricted again. Then I'm less excited.

A lot of argument I hear is that it's simply not better than Pyromancer, which I think is true most of the time, but it shores up a lot of the bad match-ups that Pyromancer has, namely Dredge and Oath. Sometimes Mentor. It's definitely a sideboard card for the deck I want it in, really just for the instant-speed one-sided Evac. I guess the 7/8 bit doesn't hurt.

I'm anxious to see the shells other people develop for this card as well. I think it's got promise.

(FWIW, flip side should have had Islandwalk...)

What I'm most excited about is this card can single-handedly return RUG Delver back to it's original slower, more grindy Tempo-Control deck like when I originally played the deck. Just swaping Tarmogoyf for Thing in The Ice in my 2012 list allows the deck to compete with the current decks in the format.

Standard RUG Delver couldn't compete with Mentor, and playing Young Pyromancer mirrors wasn't much fun either. This card has been stellar so far in clearing that gap.

Notice though that my testing is limited.

@Soly this card also gives a lot of game for delver decks towards decks like ravager shops. It pretty hard for ravager shops to kill this thing without dismember. So even though rug delver is clearly decent vs shops because of its access to powerhouse cards like ancient grudge, now all delver style decks have a card to fight it with. I definitely agree that it slots right into rug delver.

@Dayton the card definitey has value in most matchcups. Against oath your opponent still draws cards, but uslally theyre so low on life that their creature is just a 7/7 lifelinker, so it has marginal utility. Against shops you need to cast this AND 4 other spells; while leveraging your bolts and counters can get you there, you need to make sure to not flip it accidentally.

I DONT think this card is insane, but I think its a very solid creature that fills the spot that used to be Tarmogoyf.

I've been testing this out in a Doomsday sideboard. It never won me a game I wasn't already winning. It's cute against Thalia.dec, but it's actually pretty opposed to Doomsday's strategy of sculpt and explode. There's also the issue that while nobody has removal in for critters, they still have their REBs and Pyroblasts.

I think the card being not playable in Doomsday doesn't really add merit to this conversation, as Doomsday right now is incredibly fringe with how many workshop decks are floating around.

I don't know that there is specific shell that I am excited about slotting this into, but I do think cards that reward you for playing vintage are good. I also think the casting cost 1+Colored mana is one that is really good in vintage. That is what leads me to believe this is playable. That being said, it might be too hard to find a deck that wants the effect.

@Soly Really? I've been enjoying the aggro shops matchups. It was always Chalice that made the brown matchup rough since most of your deck is 1 cmc.

I think Thing is mediocre, likely unplayable. The ceiling is high (?) but the floor is a 0/4. That's Time Vault level do nothing.

You can't spend your turn two on a card that does absolutely nothing until turn four or five.

last edited by wappla

I mean its no tireless tracker, but...

Seriously though, very underrated. Will be big deal soon enough.

@Ten-Ten I have been rather unimpressed with Thing so far. Sinking 3 spells into it and then getting it Swords is pretty bad, as is topdecking it in the late game and then not being able to chain enough spells together to flip. I wouldn't call it unplayable but Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor are just miles better in my opinion.

@ChubbyRain True. What if Mentor and Pyromancer were restricted? Would Tarmo still be best?

Anyone know how to look up the old forums, because I posted a pretty scathing (and in hindsight) near perfect review of this overrated piece of garbage.

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