[UNF] Embiggen
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I am only posting this because I know infect pops it's head up every so often as a rouge deck.
They recently erratad a bunch of stuff with Phyrexian so now Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, Phyrexian Crusader, Plague Stinger, Plague Myr, and Vector asp all get +4/+4, no restrictions. Maybe more Legacy relevant but its pretty much the best Giant growth variant for the deck now.
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I run infect in Vintage and Legacy, and this seems pretty solid. Granted, I want to be doing invigorate/berserk for 1 mana, but If I have GG, this works too. Better than Might of Old Krosa, but barely. I'm going to be getting 2 or 3-for-1nd (or winning on the spot) if they remove the creature anyway.
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notably this is +5/+5 on inkmoth nexus.
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@thewhitedragon69 I mean, I would imagine you are already running invigorate and Berzerk anyway right? I play it in legacy every so often and I know I run more that just that, so at the least it is an upgrade to might of old Krosa.
I know in legacy the card you actually really want to hit is scale up and this does not play nice with it, though scale up is generally not used more than a 2 of because you never want to hit it 2 times, I could even see this replacing that.
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@blindtherapy Scale Up is really solid since it + invigorate is 10 infect without berserk. I suppose on an inkmoth, Embiggen + invigorate is also 10 infect on turn 2, so this is likely a strict upgrade to Might. I just really hate Un cards as playable in anything outside of an all-Un format anyway, so I'd really dislike playing this card (though I have to because a win is a win).
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@thewhitedragon69 I feel like at this point the way to correct this is to just make an unconditional +4+4 giant growth and phase this out of formats, if that is the case. This already gives the bonus to the most powerful and dangerous creatures it can, may as well just make that the standard right.
The ritual goblin is the one that really scares me the most. I'm not sure they would have ever considered in the past giving seething song a 2/2 goblin body but because of the sticker mechanic it seems to have gotten a pass. Could they ever just print a 2r 2/2 gobo with when this ETBs gain RRRRR?
I do hate that every time I do play embiggen in legacy I'm going to have to explain to people how everything does not have Phyrexian printed on it and pull out the oracle text. Maybe they will give us typeline corrected promos in the future.
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@protoaddict I don't mind the goblin. If you're paying 3 to generate 5 mana, you're likely killing without the attack step. A 2/2 goblin is a neat little bonus, but hardly imposing. Running effectively Scale Up 5-8 IS imposing. Luckily, removal is a thing, and it's usually a 3-for-1 when it happens, so you live large, die large. I actually went BUG in Vintage and was UG in Legacy...but honestly Phyrexian Crusader seems the way to go due to bolt/plow. I even tried thoughtseizes and dark rituals for the turn 1 land, mox, ritual, seize, crusader...cause that will get there sometimes vs blue.
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@thewhitedragon69 said in [UNF] Embiggen:
A 2/2 goblin is a neat little bonus, but hardly imposing
Making it a goblin makes it searchable, sacrificable, activates death triggers, and is cost reducable by a deck that was already using all those cards. I would not call that little. I can imagine plenty of gobo hands that can now go off a full turn earlier because of this.
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@protoaddict I could only see that being good in a Goblin build. I'm looking at it from the lense of a seething song with a 2/2 body and can't think of many times a 2/2 body is relevant to a deck that's trying to chain seething songs. I also am not sure how a goblin deck can go off with this quicker than it already can with prospectors and food chain. Also, isn't the sticker thing random? Can't you just cast this guy and get a 1-vowel sticker? I'm not 100% on how the mechanic works (as I hate UN, I've not been very driven to learn all about its silliness).
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@thewhitedragon69 Pregame you need to have a sticker deck, which is 10 sticker cards minimum. You randomly draw 3 at the start of each game and those are what you can use for the whole game. Each card has 3 names on it, so you cap at 9 names per game. You know what you have access to before you cast anything that needs it.
Of all the sticker cards, there are 9 with with words that have 4+ vowels on at least one word, many of them are 5, and I believe only 1 of them is 6. Some cards have multiple 4+ words on them. I didn't do the permutation math to figure out what your odds are, but they are pretty good. So you can build your deck to always be mana positive, at least by 1 even if you draw the 10th bad sticker card of your 3. So its not always a seething song but at the worst it's a better priest of Urabrask the first few times you cast it, but you cannot loop it like something with a fixed number.
I'm not saying this card is going to be better in every deck, it really only ever has to be good in one to be an important player. Doomsday is hot garbage outside of doomsday lists, it is still a star card of the format.
As a for instance on how they would go off. Gobos on a lotus/Mana Crypt/sol land Mox hand could cast this turn 1 for 5 mana into Snoop -> recruiter with 1 floating. With the recruiter they can stack prospector -> Torch Courier -> Kiki jiki -> Sling gang. Cast prospector, Sac _____ Goblin for 1, cast Torch Courier, use it to give Snoop haste, make a million tokens, sac enough to prospector to cast kiki, reveal Sling gang, sac board and win. Prior to this getting to 5 mana on turn one required using quite a few more cards and was less likely to be a starting hand, but that of course is not really your plan A anyway, it's just something new this enables.
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@protoaddict I see that in a gobs deck...but is a gobs deck even viable? Isn't ritual>doomsday>GG just better? Doomsday is hot garbage outside of doomsday.dec, but doomsday is a 1-card win that comes off dark ritual alone. Most cards in vintage aren't great outside of decks built around it (tinker, PO, belcher, etc.), but those cards flat out win when cast. With this card, you have to hit on the sticker, have a snoop in hand, and recruiter in hand or on top. Without those things, this is just a 2/2 + mana bump. Kinda getting away from the thread here, but maybe continue this in the gobo thread.
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@thewhitedragon69 I'm just saying there are cards that are good because they are generically good in a lot of decks, thinks like Lotus and Force of Will, etc, and then there are things that are good because they have a narrow but powerful effect like PO or Doomsday. This is in the latter group of cards.
This card brings me back to the old thought experiment of how much life would you have to gain with 1 card for 1 mana for it to be playable with the inherent card disadvantage. It's an odd one to answer because we know there are 2 drops that see play that do nothing but gain life but no 1 drops. The paradigm has changed because the answer basically used to be there is no amount of life it could give that would make it see play that would also see print. This card kinda asks, how much does a giant growth have to give to push it over the top, and right now +4/+4 is damn close. I think if this was +5/+5 for said creatures it would cross some sort of threshold where we actually needed to worry about it not only in vintage but possibly in every format.
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@protoaddict Well, with inkmoth, thanks to errata, it has crossed that threshold. I just would like free protection spells to punch these through. My go-to is vines of vastwood because of the potential +4/+4 and the fact that all my manabase taps for G. Apostle's blessing is a possibility to punch through blockers and being castable off non-green moxen. Right now my most likely to live threat is crusader, and without turn 1 ritual, he is often far too slow. Duress effects help, but often at the cost of dropping a creature for the turn. The fact that this is sometimes Scale Up #5-8 on an inkmoth is beast. The times it's +4/+4 makes me no quicker than groundswell or might. The deck really wants to be punching in a W on turn 2. This can help.
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Fun fact, Seton's Scout is one of the only creature with 4 subtypes. It is a Creature - Centaur Druid Scout Archer.
There is also Prist of Gix who it a Creature — Phyrexian Human Cleric Minion
On top of that, there are about a dozen Legendary creatures with 3 subtypes that would also get full bonus from this card.
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This guy is 5 types.
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Actually 7 as it is type and subtype so artifact and creature count as well.
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@botvinik Thanks! Didn't spend that much time reading Embiggen
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@john-cox How does this work with a "Creatures lose all abilities" effects?
I think it would lose its subtypes since in the textbox?
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Does a creature with "Changeling" get +10000/+10000 since it is all creature types?Nope - cause changeling is a brushwagg, bahahaha
