Marland_Moore last edited by Marland_Moore
This is a rant, about my feelings on the format and how some of our content creators feel about the Vintage community. Take it for what it is.
I listened to the most recent episode of the Eternal Glory Podcast and I typically love this cast. I was literally appalled when Brian Coval a past Vintage Champion commented that most Vintage players are not very good at playing magic.
People play this game for several different reasons and some people buy into Vintage or happen to own Vintage decks for several reasons. The reason I found the statement so bad was that it implied that there is a way to be good at Vintage.
There several ways to be good at Vintage or at least have fun. Vintage feels like a meme lately. Are you just trying to resolve Tinker, because it is just so fun and so good? Or are you trying to resolve Doomsday? Maybe you just want to slam a bunch of prison pieces down and call it a game, or you want to turn Bazaar of Baghdad sideways because no one can stop how broken that is.
My point here is that the game evolves but being "good" at the game is measured in so many ways. I find more enjoyment at brewing or playing some off the path cards. You can be "good" at Vintage by playing a well known and well established deck and becoming a master at that deck. You grind out results on MTGO, if that is your thing. But don't pretend that either of these is better than the other.
I have been having trouble finding enjoyment in Vintage since 2019. FIRE design has really messed up the "eternal" formats. MH1 and MH2 have shifted the fundamentals of the every eternal format including Vintage.
The comment that most Vintage players are bad is just basically calling out that there is not much of a "Vintage Community". Having a previous Vintage champion openly saying that most people who have the cards and play the format are bad would cause community outrage.
In this world of Vintage being a digital format, I am probably not as good as I could be in Vintage and probably never will be because I don't want to be good at MTGO - I want to be enjoy playing the game in paper.
The overall comment on the podcast is that Legacy sucks right now and Vintage is fun. I disagree, Vintage is not that fun. Most of the time I play against the same 6 decks and I feel that about 25% of the games are a literal coin flip. There are some plays where I genuinely get out played or I make some plays that out maneuver my opponent but I find these to few and far between.
I played the most Vintage I have played in a longtime last week, it was about 30 matches. That is a lot for me and I honestly just did not have fun. It felt like playing a video game.
I think Coval meant that most Vintage players (and could be expanded to all formats) are not good at playing competitive magic. There are many ways to play. I love to build fun decks and hate netdecking. My idea of fun is winning with my own build, not JUST winning. To some, that's being a bad player because their goal is, above all else, to crush their opponent every...single...time.
When it comes to competitive play, that IS the only goal - to win. There are several players a lot better at maximizing wins than most. The pros are a small percentage of players, but all they do is win. Fun is a side effect for real competitive players. They also tend to be the people that play competitive poker and the like as well, and/or dump hundreds of dollars and hours per month into buying and playing magic.
Most of us like to free play or toss in some spare cash here and there and just play to kill free time.
Marland_Moore last edited by Marland_Moore
@thewhitedragon69 I have at times in my life gone to the extreme spike side of the game and it is a dark place. I understand wanting to win but the truth of the matter is that this is a game that does not matter a great deal in the grand scheme of life.
I used to play a ton before I had kids and I was pretty good at winning and back in 2017-2018 I went on another playing spree and got pretty good at winning again. I just don't see the point anymore when I'm pushing 50 and I have so many other responsibilities that matter more than magic.
As a parent now, I see the importance of having balance in life. This may sound preachy, but it is not mentally healthy to be all in on winning all of the time. It does not make you a good human.
This game is meant to be fun and sometimes that is trying to play at the highest level possible and sometimes it is just playing a pile of jank. Having fun means you are good at the game.
@marland_moore I hear you. I'm 40+ myself now. My heyday was 2001-2006, and then I dropped off the competitive scene entirely. But even back then, I played and won with my homebrews. The Man Show and The Riddler were probably my two favorite decks ever (always loved Workshop, but hated prison). Turn dudes sideways for the win!
In the grand scheme, magic is a blip, but it has a way of keeping you sucked in. I've quit and rejoined a dozen times and sold and bought my collection three times already. Now I'm hooked on MtGA and can't bring myself to uninstall it. I have a balance in life, but could be far more productive without magic in it. And I think that might be why some people are Spikes. If it's just fun, it is really something that should be an occasional treat and not take up much time or money - like ice cream. But if you are investing time and money in it, you probably only feel "productive" with that effort if you are winning. If you drop $1000 a month and 200 hours playing, but just "have fun" with jank and get blown out all the time, it's certainly not productive. But if you can leverage that time and money into a career, notoriety, sponsorships, championships, etc., then magic becomes a vehicle for productivity more than "fun."
Hey I think the popular opinion has always been that the pro formats have tighter margins, so it’s easier to lose a game due to a small error.
I feel like saying though that Magic is not a hard game. There are so many other more difficult subjects out there that you could be working to master. Having an elitist attitude over magic is like admitting that you’re not smart enough to do anything else.
Maxxx17 last edited by
I like it quite a bit.