White Eldrazi



  • I will also point out the interaction with Containment Priest which just leaves their guy exiled.. Jailer is sweet unless your opponent is playing combo; it's too bad it'll never be on MTGO (not that I play MTGO anyway).



  • Jailer is interesting and it wouldn't surprise me if more than one resolves because people have no idea there is bolt on card drawing. Definitely an interesting build with the new mens, does the bord need more stony though? Bit of a must have these days I'd have thought, but White drazi builds do like their mana rocks...



  • won the quarterly Gatherling tournament with this last week, going 5-1, 10-2 in games. Thought-Knot and Displacer are weak cards. I knew they were weak before the P9 and regretted playing them when I knew better. Replacing them with almost anything halfway aggressive would be an upgrade. This build improved the deck's worst matchup significantly.

    Avacyn and Gisela are not very good, but I did win the final game of the tournament by flashing Avacyn through Tangle Wire and dealing the full 20 damage with it. Fragmentize is useless and should be replaced by a card that does something.

    Ballista is about to change the metagame significantly, no promises whether this stuff is good going forward.



  • @wappla So this is basically a standard deck in Vintage. Pretty awesome. Nice deck man.


  • TMD Supporter

    @wappla Why do you say that Thought Knot and Displacer are weak? It looks like the Exemplar and Copter push the deck in a more aggressive and less disruptive direction. Is this the right way to go?



  • @DrStreetmention said in White Eldrazi:

    @wappla Why do you say that Thought Knot and Displacer are weak? It looks like the Exemplar and Copter push the deck in a more aggressive and less disruptive direction. Is this the right way to go?

    Maximizing the utilization of tempo gains associated with tax effects lends itself to a deck that already wants to kill it's opponent by turning creatures sideways. When you improve your clock you improve every other card in the deck. The strength of Thorn, Thalia, THC, and Trinisphere is indirectly proportional to the number of turns your opponent gets. By lowering the curve you widen the gap at which Wasteland and Strip Mine can be utilized as spells rather than sources of mana. Both of the aforementioned points is increasingly important in Eldrazi or in this case Snow White and the Four Dwarves precisely because we do not play Tangle Wire. All of these points were accentuated by improving the mana base, made possible by cutting some of the Eldrazi. Displacer is brilliant in elongated game states, something I'd prefer to avoid considering the offensive options available to other archetypes. Thought Knot is kind of like Adrian Petersen, he looks really great during the draft then spends the entire season injured and when he does play you start to realize how awful over paying for Tidehollow Sculler is.

    Remember kids, play to your strengths.



  • The other thing I implore people building this deck to remember is that MUD is your worst matchup. Replacing Heretic Cathar, your best creature vs MUD, with Wingmares makes no sense and you shouldn't do it.


  • TMD Supporter

    @socialite That's very helpful, thank you. I have lamented the lack of Tangle Wire (I believe earlier in this thread) and speeding up the deck does seem like a good way to address how it can run out of gas. I'm especially excited to try Copter both as a flying beater and also as card selection.



  • @wappla Nice build as always Wappla. I've been playing Smuggler's Copter too in the deck and managed to cash a Daily with it. I think it's probably the Vintage deck that most benefits from the effect and I think does improve the (non-Null Rod) Shops match-up. I like your super aggressive approach - will have to give it a try!

    Would you mind elaborating a bit on why you find Thought-Knot bad? Is it due to the contortions required from the mana base? Do you think the deck can be disruptive enough without it? (Is that essentially what Thalia 2.0 now allows the deck?

    EDIT: Just reading the responses above. 🙂



  • even though i didn't like displacer much, cutting TKS sounds like crazy, especially for a 3/2 vanilla creature 😕
    no love regarding sanctum prelate?



  • @CwaM said in White Eldrazi:

    even though i didn't like displacer much, cutting TKS sounds like crazy, especially for a 3/2 vanilla creature 😕

    Why would I want to cut this card? What do I want from this slot? These are the questions I ask myself after I pick up a list to play.

    This isn't directed at you solely, but sometimes I wonder what really drives people to play the cards they do. I suspect it has much less to do with individual testing, proper card evaluation, and more with observational analysis from a results oriented viewpoint. Now there's nothing wrong with utilizing this kind of analysis but it should be done within reason. Due to the power level of this format it's not outside the realm of possibility to assume that incorrect choices can often go unpunished. This is not to confirm that this is the absolute direction White Eldrazi has to take to move forward but, it would be nice to see individuals stop reshashing the same builds over and over and over.



  • @wappla nice job with your tweaking of the deck. However, I think you are creating a completely different deck. This is the White Eldrazi thread. You only have Reality Smashers left in the deck. Not quite enough to call this White Eldrazi. The ironic thing about leaving Smashers as your only Eldrazi card in this deck is that, to me, that should have been the first card just. TKS seems like it should be the first card in this list (technically Thalia 1.0 is first) then build the deck from there. The ratio of Thalia 2.0 and Eldrazi Displacer should be meta dependent.

    I will have to try out a similar list to your White Weenie list you listed above soon.



  • @ssasala said in White Eldrazi:

    The ironic thing about leaving Smashers as your only Eldrazi card in this deck is that, to me, that should have been the first card just. TKS seems like it should be the first card in this list (technically Thalia 1.0 is first) then build the deck from there. The ratio of Thalia 2.0 and Eldrazi Displacer should be meta dependent.

    What is your reasoning for these assumptions?


  • TMD Supporter

    I mean from my perspective, TKS is the reason to play the mana base that we do, if you are not going to play them why not just play a regular hate, or stompy deck? I don't know if the Ancient Tombs are still as good when you don't have TKS to power out on turn 2.

    Also, why do you categorize the card as weak @wappla ? In my experience the best possible opening for the deck involve turn 1 thalia, turn 2 TKS or other thalia, turn 3 tks if i played other thalia turn 3. I don't think i have lost a game with either of those sequences unless literally every other card i drew was a land that didn't destroy my opponents lands.



  • @garbageaggro

    Yeah but this list doesn't play the awful mana base. This version also has better sequencing and efficiency because of the curve. Better curve, better mana, better mana - more options, more options - more wins.


  • TMD Supporter

    It looks like the same manabase to me plus 2 flagstones, I was already not playing the Eldrazi temples except in sideboard games for the mirror/against shops.

    I mean to me it looks like it is a straight substitution of tool craft exemplar for tks, but you don't actually always have turn 1 white mana with this deck, compounded by the fact that you would have to name dwarf or artificer with your cavern which makes subsequent plays more awkward, I just don't see it.

    Yes you are probably more likely to cast a turn 1 toolcraft rather than a turn 1 tks, but it doesn't disrupt the opponent at all. If you want that why not just play porcelain legionairre at least then it always has first strike.

    Smuggler's copter also doesn't disrupt your opponent at all, and you seem like you are behind in the mirror because your creatures are smaller on average, and your opponent has access to displacer. I get that having more options with copter is good, but you are still playing a card that gets hit by your thorn effects and isn't necessarily hitting harder than your creatures, if you are going to do that why not play equipment (I see that you are playing stony silence) but stoneforge + equipment does a similar thing to copter, and let's you cheat the mana costs along the way.

    Edit: That all aside I will attempt to put together your list, maybe there is something to copter that I am not seeing.



  • Toolcraft isn't a turn one play, it's there to exploit the holes in the curve now that you have cut down on 3 and 4 drops. Deploying multiple threats is superior than investing in one. It's also a 3/2 Firststrike for 1 in the mirror. Displacer is a 3/3 for 3 with a marginal and expensive ability, the mirror has 4-6 ways to completely invalidate Displacer's activated ability.


  • TMD Supporter

    I mean it is probably a first striker a smaller percentage of the time than you have activation mana for displacer. More importantly playing multiple threats is only better than 1 threat if the multiple threats do more than the 1, a 4/4 plus a thoughtseize is better than a 3/2 + many things in the deck.

    I want to go back to something mentioned in the original post by @wappla and that is that this improves the worst matchup, in his eyes, mud, but I am asking at what cost. I think this makes combo a worse matchup and mentor/pyro a worse matchup.



  • @socialite Reality Smasher reads: 5/5 dude that attacks. If you are playing Thalia's and Displacers, you should have been able to disrupt your opponent enough that Smasher shouldn't be needed. If you have 5 mana to cast Smasher then you are almost able blink opponents creatures twice.

    My opinion. That's all. Flexibility with cards is great. Displacer does this. Smasher is just a big dude. In this list, a White Weenie deck needs a finisher. Smasher is perfect for that style of deck.

    On the other side of the argument, I still play 2/3 Smashers in my list because it can still be good. In reference to TKS, it's a big dude but it does disrupt the opponent... just like every other card in White Eldrazi lists. Thalia, Null Rod, Displacer, TKS etc are all forms of disruption. TKS just happens to be bigger than most creatures.



  • I'm well aware what the text on these cards states. Let me know when you guys actually have a point to make.


 

WAF/WHF