Two intelligent souls played White Eldrazi in the P9 yesterday, and neither of us lost outside the mirror until the semifinals. Our win-rate against the field was 85.7%. In the swiss we went 10-0 in matches, 20-4 in games. I went 6-1 against Gush, and 5-1 against Mentor.

White Eldrazi was also the best deck at NA champs. The 15 non-budget White Eldrazi players had a win rate against the field of 62.3%. This was obscured by the archetype being lumped in with the awful Jacodrazi, which 41 players registered, winning just 35.7% of their matches against the field. My 6-1 record against Gush yesterday isn't anomaly. At Champs, the deck was 76% against Gush in 25 total matches.

last edited by wappla

@wappla The deck continues to be a real threat in the meta today. Impressive numbers for the two players of this P9! Have you found a bad matchup or a matchup where you felt you were fighting against the tide?

Are the decklists up yet? Curious if you splash red or black or if mono white is still the best option. Nice job on finish

It's kind of like Shops except it has way better answers to Oath of Druids and Dredge. Deck gets my vote for causing me the most aggravation in the past year!

I really like two things @wappla deck list:
1- not playing 4 smasher which is only a (very though) beater
2-the mana source count which has been lowered

Are you not playing sol ring because you don't want to be missteped it?

@stsung thanks for the links.

It's amazing how the lists are similar and completely different. This is great for vintage. It means there is still innovation within the archetype and still avenues that need explored.

This deck is also borderline budget-to-cheaper side of vintage. Lotus is not necessary and you only need 1-4 moxen depending on the build.

I played a mono White list at EW Columbus to a 5-0-1 start to get derailed by Joe Brennan's perfectly metagamed control mentor list. The deck is strong and is the new "Hatebears" deck in vintage.

wouldn't call it innovation, more like just some tuning.

@CwaM exactly, cutting Sol Ring increases knowledge about the keepability of opening hands.

@ssasala Although some many people cut moxen at champs, the two players with full moxen, Kiesel and VanDyke, were the best performers. I can't justify playing less than full moxen in a deck that wants t1 Thorn or Thalia.

last edited by wappla

For people playing more than just white, have you seen the new spoiler for "Industrial Tower" ?

Industrial Tower
Land (rare)
T: Add {C} to your mana pool.
T, pay 1 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only when you control an artifact.

Seems like it might be relevant in addition to playing regular pain lands as effectively a tri-land for two colors and eldrazi.

I only played the deck twice, resulting in two totally different results (4-0 in swiss + win top8 and ... 2/2 in swiss)
Few things I was wondering were:

  • why people are not playing full moxen when you want to play a threat on turn 1? This deck is only playing 4 ancient tomb to cheat (and from 2 to 4 temples) so I cannot imagine myself not playing full moxen

  • do we really need that sol ring? If you have let's say plains + moxen + sol ring, I don't think you should go for the sol ring as if misstepped, it will cut you from a threat. I've been playing shop decks for so many years.... getting sol ring misstep was bad news but with so many sol-lands we could still going too fast for the other decks. This deck is playing...plains!! Hard time to go faster than the others with this kind of basics! 😉

  • why people are playing 29-30 mana sources... This latest list runs 28 which is still a crazy lot...

  • why no horizon canopy/flagstones ? Sometimes you get flooded out and you would love to replace a plains with another card

I might be too used playing shops but I hate 1 mana lands 😉

I know that my experience might not really be that valueable, I don't have any tournaments to back it up except local 4-0 and 3-1 with Boin's list.
Sol Ring is something I rather decided to cut, because usually the deck just simply wanted to play something on turn 1 and if possible not get it countered. I had (still have) Black Lotus in the deck which allows for some t1 TKS or something but usually when I had access to the card a better play was to play a Thorn and following turn I usually had the 4 mana I needed to cast the spell anyway. I lost more games to having Lotus and not a Mox than vice-versa. I run all five Moxen and would not play less. What number of sources is necessary is a question. I think that if the deck won't rely too much on the Eldrazi (Reality Smasher) it does not need to play that many sources, but it still wants to have access to 2 mana on turn one.

I also had Trinisphere in the deck instead of Chalice of the Void and noticed that I managed to win more games because of that Sphere than when I had the possibility to play Chalice.

This deck seemed to want an explosive start the same way Eldrazi wanted and without over 27 sources this deck just can't do that. But it is possible that one does not need that because it is more of a Prison deck than stompy. Sitting behind Thorns works as well and is usually safer than wondering if your opponent has the Force of Will or not. It's not like 1 TKS will certainly win the game.

I actually like Recruiter of the Guard in the deck and will have to try it. It may not be as crazy as in Legacy but being able to find a hatebear seems pretty good (or an additional creature).

I struggle with Shops but maybe I'm doing something wrong. 😕

What I wonder is why Boin likes Vryn Wingmare. I played that before but Thalia, Heretic Cathar often has similar effect since many decks run fetchlands and nonbasic lands but also affects creatures coming into play. The card has First Strike and is quite a beater unlike the Wingmare and can block Foundry Inspectors/Fleetwheel Cruiser and other creatures all day. The only downside I see is that Thalia is a legendary creature so you can't have two in play and it can be bounced with Karakas...

(time to try wappla's list instead)

Did anyone try thalia v1 + thalia v2 + Vryngmare ? Cutting Reality Smasher (so the aggro part) to emphasize the prison part.

@CwaM I tried. Honestly not for long because I did not like it from game 1 and I'm not really sure if I want to give it a second chance, but maybe it is just me having a problem with Vryn Wingmare. I was always taking one or the other out when boarding. I usually just put the Wingmares in my sideboard and kept Thalias. In rare occasions I kept both and cut Smashers. (I played 3/3/3 of those). When I was taking out Thalia, Heretic Cathar I usually put in Spirit of the Labyrinth. Thalia usually dies on first occasion while Wingmare stays in play. But I don't usually manage to kill someone with Wingmares, they need help from the Eldrazi creatures.

(I was just trying to figure out which creatures work best for me so my sideboard wasn't really a sideboard but rather cards I considered playing main deck. On the other hand I came to conclusion that I'd rather play 4 Null Rod. )

I maintain that playing glowrider because it is a human is better than vryn for flying.

@garbageaggro This is one I'm torn on - problem being that one of the decks the flying is better with will just counter the horse as it's not being cast through cavern. Has anyone tried a split?

I don't think that you should be playing either to be honest.

I ran into a white hatebears deck with only TKS the other day. It ran Ancient Tomb into four copies of new Thalia, along with the usual suspects. It was pretty interesting and looked quite tough to beat. It also ran 4 copies of Spirit of the Lab, which I'm assuming makes the Outcome matchup pretty good?

@Topical_Island said in White Eldrazi:

I ran into a white hatebears deck with only TKS the other day. It ran Ancient Tomb into four copies of new Thalia, along with the usual suspects. It was pretty interesting and looked quite tough to beat. It also ran 4 copies of Spirit of the Lab, which I'm assuming makes the Outcome matchup pretty good?

As long as the P.O. player isn't on the play!

@msg67183 Yeah, fair. I think the list had at least some Moxen, so other than haveing 4 Thalia, 4 Thorn i'm not sure what else can be done in terms of that matchup. 1 Chalice? I'm not sure if it had that.

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