Thalia: I was sure that four was the right number earlier in the week but now I'm not as sure. You're right that drawing dead cards in this deck that doesn't have any card draw is a big problem. I may go back to three though I don't think I'd include a fourth in the board as I think there are other sideboard cards that are good against the same decks but have more utility in other matchups as well (maybe Canonist or something).

Crucible: I have one in the side now but it is definitely a maindeck-worthy card.

I like my board for shops now. With the list that I posted above I bring in

and I remove

I also take out Chalice on the draw.

I don't know if this is right or not, obviously. I am not sure about how to evaluate Containment Priest (and the Displacer combo) in any matchup other than the obvious (Dredge and Oath). But this sideboarding has felt pretty good.

I'm thinking of trying:

-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

-2 Endbringer

+1 Crucible of Worlds

+1 Reality Smasher

+1 Swords to Plowshares

And I'll replace the Crucible that was in the board with an Ethersworn Canonist, I think. Though I also wouldn't mind having a Ghost Quarter in the board as well (that could also get me a Plains in a pinch).

@DrStreetmention That all seems really sound to me. I'm at the very entry level of understanding this deck... so for whatever that's worth.

If it helps you, I'm working on Oath vs Eldrazi, and I'm carrying many man board Decays anyway. The current plan is to supplement those with some number of Doom Blades from the board to hit the larger creatures. The take away from that, is that trying to deny colors using strip effects is probably the strongest strategy against multicolor decks running extra board hate, or at least a very strong one. I can tell you that specific color denial is much more fearsome than multiple taxing effects from my end, since taxing effects can be unwound 1 at a time on the end of turn, assuming you can just play the first one. Taxing effects are great, but they make it very possible to topdeck good draws, since anything that taps for mana is probably good. Whereas color denial can be brutal, since you have to draw exactly that color off the top to get anything done.

What is the consensus on Mother of Runes in White Eldrazi? As folks start to ramp up their creature removal, is Mom a card that should start to see more action? Mass creature removal is fairly challenging to get off vs White Eldrazi between sphere's and wastelands, except maybe deluge which I am not a huge fan of anyway.

@p3temangus Mom seems condemned to the margins to me. She's a bit far from the root of the problem for my tastes. (I tend to shy way from the cards that are just counters to other people's counters, because now you're saying... Ok, If I draw X and they draw Y then I draw Z... Z will be really good!... A lot off times they just won't have Y, but it won't matter because you are sitting on dead card Z so they didn't even lose out.)

No doubt Mom can be bomb in the right circumstances, I just question the frequency of those circumstances. Mom is bad against Dredge, bad against combo, bad against other Eldrazi, bad against Shops/Robots... at least a little dangerous against Oath... but good against Gush and Tempo Creature decks.... so maybe maybe a SB card? I'd be much more interested in cards like Crucible and even weird drawing cards like Coercive Portal, since they are closer to the Root of the Problem in my opinion. (Portal solving the problem by just drawing more creatures and outpacing a Mentor deck's ability to reload the guns.)

The whole point of Thalia, Thought-Knot, and Smasher is they are good against spot removal. Don't dilute your deck to make them better.

Four Thalia is the correct number. Having two is much much better than zero. She's the reason you are playing white to begin with.

@wappla said:

The whole point of Thalia, Thought-Knot, and Smasher is they are good against spot removal. Don't dilute your deck to make them better.

Four Thalia is the correct number. Having two is much much better than zero. She's the reason you are playing white to begin with.

Yeah, this was my reasoning for going up to four. I'm second-guessing that now but that may be a knee-jerk reaction to getting Thalia-flooded for a few games recently.

@wappla Fair point. Having two is about infinity times better than zero on the Thalia axis. I suppose it comes down to what other card you can put in the other slot....?

As a thought experiment, imagine if they just dropped a functional reprint of Thalia tomorrow... (which would be pretty awesome for this deck)... would you play all 8? Maybe that's right? But it kind feels like a lot of decks would settle for 3 and 3 or something, because playing all 8 would have you seeing an unplayable double of one or the other in nearly every match... I wonder if a Crucible in that slot isn't just better in decks that have tons of waste effects? That's the question anyway... Maybe Crucible goes in for some other marginal card like a Wingmare (Assuming its in... or 1 Priest or 1 Revoker or something...)

In fact, you're probably right. But I wouldn't begrudge anyone the choice of playing 3 Thalia's. And I am convinced at this point that running singletons of non-stacking cards that can actually provide some card advantage (or at least prevent card disadvantage) can be very important to this deck, because the plodding topdecking is certainly a big weakness... Crucible, and Spirit of the Labyrinth, I'm looking at you.

While an opener of 2 Thalia is, to your point, much much better than most zero Thalia hands (at least so far as Thalia is concerned), A Thalia into Spirit hand is a complete monster against many decks. And Thalia with Crucible and any Waste or Strip, while a little slower, is going to be also very difficult for many current decks to escape. Those options have huge upside that should be considered.

last edited by Topical_Island

@DrStreetmention why not play Glowrider if you want a Human?

something like 3 Thalia, 1 Glowrider split. Just a suggestion.

@mediumsteve said:

@DrStreetmention why not play Glowrider if you want a Human?

Good suggestion. With the mana in this deck it's very possible that the Humanity of Glowrider is better than the flying of Vryn Wingmare.

I'm wondering if other people side out Priests vs. decks like Mentor. They don't do anything on their own so I guess it depends on how reliable the combo is with Displacer. Priest is usually the first cards to go for me and I bring in creature removal but I'm not sure it's right.

Is anyone looking at World breaker as an include? I feel like eventually Moat and Ensnaring bridge might rear their heads again. I run Disenchant in the board and it seems pretty good at times but maybe a 1-1 split for the World Breaker might be advantageous. I think I am going to test it.

@studderingdave Is it possible to just run a couple eye of ugin and a single giant creature that solves the moat problem?

I don't have enough experience to say with the deck but you bring up an interesting point. I played in a 12 man event today with Mono White Eldrazi and went 2-2. I lost to Blue Moon and a UR Slaver and won against Oath and Merfolk. Blood Moon hit me really hard in the Blue Moon Matchup. I am thinking of upping my disenchant count in the board but I usually just kneejerk myself right out of a good deck. My gut tells me to just grind more games before making any changes.

Thought I would look into kicking this thread in the arse.

New Thalia is a thing, and she is seeing some play in the limited data I can find online. I was wondering what others think about this deck now that we have that card and what kind of "Kick" it will grant the deck. I have been out of the loop since the printing so if anyone has tried her I would be most interested in what they thought of her.

I have 2 copies of "THC" in my White Eldrazi build. Nothing crazy yet, but I have got her in play and caused some headaches with her.

I've played a few matches with new Thalia. Some in a more white version without Smasher and Temple and with Stoneforge and also in a list with more Eldrazi including Mimic and Endless One.

New Thalia has been good. Definitely a hassle for opponents. The 3CC means it doesn't get down as quickly which is pretty key. I'm going to add Petal, maybe, for more acceleration.

I don't have enough reps with new Thalia yet but initial experience has been good. I said earlier that this deck needs something like Tangle Wire as an extra piece of disruption to not run out of steam. Or some crap like that. Thalia's biggest issue is that she doesn't affect cards already on the board but maybe it will be able to serve that purpose anyway.

Are Reality Smasher and Eldrazi Temple required to post here? I've been trying with Displacer and TKS as my Eldrazi and added Recruiter of the Guard with a light tutor package. I've only played a few games, but the deck feels powerful for sure. I even had a game where I played Recruiter into Revoker on the same turn then played Displacer on the next turn, blinked Recruiter, got another Revoker, and cast it. Probably not something you'll do every game, but it felt great locking out each Moxen my opponent played.

@water0 I have played the deck a fair amount without Smasher and Temple, and while I think there are some matches where I don't want those cards, the matches where I want them the most are the toughest. Basically grixis pyro is what I am talking about, we need something that can run over the tokens, and can't just be chumped, and smashers give us that opportunity. Personally I am sideboarding the smasher and temples at the moment, but I think they are pretty good.

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