It might just be me, but any time I splash a colour in Eldrazi, I absolutely play at least 1 copy of the useful utility lands

Green: Yavimaya Hollow
Black: Volrath's Stronghold
White: Kor Haven

@sodoyouwearacape Yeah I have hit a mini losing streak of four matches and am a little down on it as well. One of these matches was 0-2 to Eldrazi Tribal and it wasn't close. Their mana is better, their creatures are bigger, and our Thalia/Thorn disruption does nothing to them while their Null Rods can be annoying and their extra Ghost Quarters are definitely a problem.

White Eldrazi feels best against blue decks and not so good against non-blue decks. Which is fine. I think if White Eldrazi is going to continue to be a thing it will be because we push white rather than move away from it because the more we skew towards Eye of Ugin, Mimic, etc the less likely we'll be able to cast our Thalias. Eldrazi Tribal will always be better and more consistent at that game anyway. White has plenty of tools to improve pretty much any matchup. The question is whether we can get the balance right and I'm not sure about that.

I feel like this deck really misses Tangle Wires. It's hard to play the tempo game without them. I am tempted to take this deck with challenging mana and add blue for Reflector Mages. Though that would require two colored mana producing sources in play so it's likely too much to ask for. Still, that card would be nice to have.

@DrStreetmention Could White Eldrazi just start running Swords in the SB for the Eldrazi Mirror, cutting Thalia's and Thorns to put in bullets?

@Topical_Island Yeah I think that is a great start. Currently I'm running 3 Swords and 1 Dismember in the side. I wouldn't mind having access to more Swords or Paths and maybe 1-2 maindeck.

White Eldrazi is built to beat cantrip decks but there are a lot of things that can just come out vs. creature decks:

4 Thorn
? Thalia
Wingmare if you're playing it.
Spirit if you're playing it
Revokers (vs. Eldrazi Tribal, anyway)

@DrStreetmention I just proxied up a netdeck list last night. It's 4 of everything... TKS, Smasher, Thalia, Thorn, Revoker, Priest, Displacer... then 2 Wingmare and a Lodestone and 4 Wastes and Stripmine

If I'm honest, I'm interested in learning how to beat this archetype with other stuff, but that also means seeing how good this build can be. So far, it sure looks like a powerful deck to me.

My thoughts about the netdeck list, are that there are way too many 4 ofs. I would have 1 Thalia in the SB, just because I don't like seeing multiples. I get that it can be a bomb, but it can also be a dead draw, and in just yesterdays playtesting, almost every loss took the form of dead cards being topdecked.

I would put in a singleton Crucible. Whereever someone is on the Thalia question. Crucible can be an insane game ender in this deck, and would be a huge bomb against other Eldrazi decks specifically... those are my initial thoughts.

Have the bullets in the board been helping you in the mirror much? What are you taking out?

last edited by Topical_Island

@Topical_Island

Thalia: I was sure that four was the right number earlier in the week but now I'm not as sure. You're right that drawing dead cards in this deck that doesn't have any card draw is a big problem. I may go back to three though I don't think I'd include a fourth in the board as I think there are other sideboard cards that are good against the same decks but have more utility in other matchups as well (maybe Canonist or something).

Crucible: I have one in the side now but it is definitely a maindeck-worthy card.

I like my board for shops now. With the list that I posted above I bring in

and I remove

I also take out Chalice on the draw.

I don't know if this is right or not, obviously. I am not sure about how to evaluate Containment Priest (and the Displacer combo) in any matchup other than the obvious (Dredge and Oath). But this sideboarding has felt pretty good.

I'm thinking of trying:

-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

-2 Endbringer

+1 Crucible of Worlds

+1 Reality Smasher

+1 Swords to Plowshares

And I'll replace the Crucible that was in the board with an Ethersworn Canonist, I think. Though I also wouldn't mind having a Ghost Quarter in the board as well (that could also get me a Plains in a pinch).

@DrStreetmention That all seems really sound to me. I'm at the very entry level of understanding this deck... so for whatever that's worth.

If it helps you, I'm working on Oath vs Eldrazi, and I'm carrying many man board Decays anyway. The current plan is to supplement those with some number of Doom Blades from the board to hit the larger creatures. The take away from that, is that trying to deny colors using strip effects is probably the strongest strategy against multicolor decks running extra board hate, or at least a very strong one. I can tell you that specific color denial is much more fearsome than multiple taxing effects from my end, since taxing effects can be unwound 1 at a time on the end of turn, assuming you can just play the first one. Taxing effects are great, but they make it very possible to topdeck good draws, since anything that taps for mana is probably good. Whereas color denial can be brutal, since you have to draw exactly that color off the top to get anything done.

What is the consensus on Mother of Runes in White Eldrazi? As folks start to ramp up their creature removal, is Mom a card that should start to see more action? Mass creature removal is fairly challenging to get off vs White Eldrazi between sphere's and wastelands, except maybe deluge which I am not a huge fan of anyway.

@p3temangus Mom seems condemned to the margins to me. She's a bit far from the root of the problem for my tastes. (I tend to shy way from the cards that are just counters to other people's counters, because now you're saying... Ok, If I draw X and they draw Y then I draw Z... Z will be really good!... A lot off times they just won't have Y, but it won't matter because you are sitting on dead card Z so they didn't even lose out.)

No doubt Mom can be bomb in the right circumstances, I just question the frequency of those circumstances. Mom is bad against Dredge, bad against combo, bad against other Eldrazi, bad against Shops/Robots... at least a little dangerous against Oath... but good against Gush and Tempo Creature decks.... so maybe maybe a SB card? I'd be much more interested in cards like Crucible and even weird drawing cards like Coercive Portal, since they are closer to the Root of the Problem in my opinion. (Portal solving the problem by just drawing more creatures and outpacing a Mentor deck's ability to reload the guns.)

The whole point of Thalia, Thought-Knot, and Smasher is they are good against spot removal. Don't dilute your deck to make them better.

Four Thalia is the correct number. Having two is much much better than zero. She's the reason you are playing white to begin with.

@wappla said:

The whole point of Thalia, Thought-Knot, and Smasher is they are good against spot removal. Don't dilute your deck to make them better.

Four Thalia is the correct number. Having two is much much better than zero. She's the reason you are playing white to begin with.

Yeah, this was my reasoning for going up to four. I'm second-guessing that now but that may be a knee-jerk reaction to getting Thalia-flooded for a few games recently.

@wappla Fair point. Having two is about infinity times better than zero on the Thalia axis. I suppose it comes down to what other card you can put in the other slot....?

As a thought experiment, imagine if they just dropped a functional reprint of Thalia tomorrow... (which would be pretty awesome for this deck)... would you play all 8? Maybe that's right? But it kind feels like a lot of decks would settle for 3 and 3 or something, because playing all 8 would have you seeing an unplayable double of one or the other in nearly every match... I wonder if a Crucible in that slot isn't just better in decks that have tons of waste effects? That's the question anyway... Maybe Crucible goes in for some other marginal card like a Wingmare (Assuming its in... or 1 Priest or 1 Revoker or something...)

In fact, you're probably right. But I wouldn't begrudge anyone the choice of playing 3 Thalia's. And I am convinced at this point that running singletons of non-stacking cards that can actually provide some card advantage (or at least prevent card disadvantage) can be very important to this deck, because the plodding topdecking is certainly a big weakness... Crucible, and Spirit of the Labyrinth, I'm looking at you.

While an opener of 2 Thalia is, to your point, much much better than most zero Thalia hands (at least so far as Thalia is concerned), A Thalia into Spirit hand is a complete monster against many decks. And Thalia with Crucible and any Waste or Strip, while a little slower, is going to be also very difficult for many current decks to escape. Those options have huge upside that should be considered.

last edited by Topical_Island

@DrStreetmention why not play Glowrider if you want a Human?

something like 3 Thalia, 1 Glowrider split. Just a suggestion.

@mediumsteve said:

@DrStreetmention why not play Glowrider if you want a Human?

Good suggestion. With the mana in this deck it's very possible that the Humanity of Glowrider is better than the flying of Vryn Wingmare.

I'm wondering if other people side out Priests vs. decks like Mentor. They don't do anything on their own so I guess it depends on how reliable the combo is with Displacer. Priest is usually the first cards to go for me and I bring in creature removal but I'm not sure it's right.

Is anyone looking at World breaker as an include? I feel like eventually Moat and Ensnaring bridge might rear their heads again. I run Disenchant in the board and it seems pretty good at times but maybe a 1-1 split for the World Breaker might be advantageous. I think I am going to test it.

@studderingdave Is it possible to just run a couple eye of ugin and a single giant creature that solves the moat problem?

I don't have enough experience to say with the deck but you bring up an interesting point. I played in a 12 man event today with Mono White Eldrazi and went 2-2. I lost to Blue Moon and a UR Slaver and won against Oath and Merfolk. Blood Moon hit me really hard in the Blue Moon Matchup. I am thinking of upping my disenchant count in the board but I usually just kneejerk myself right out of a good deck. My gut tells me to just grind more games before making any changes.

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