Thanks @prn for this discussion! The White Eldrazi manabase always feels a little shaky, so good to see people puzzling out how to optimize it. The manabase you've laid out looks pretty good, though I'd like to see a 3rd Eldrazi Temple. I think that slot would have to come from the spells/creatures - I wouldn't cut any of other lands for it.

For what it's worth, I'm not sold on the deck needing any WW cards either. Prelate's the most appealing one, but I feel like Glowrider can fill that role pretty well while being easier to cast.

@fsecco Thanks for your helpful commentary. I do appreciate it. I didn't really intend to get into a discussion about specific SB cards, but it appears we have one, so I'll just say this: I don't have any particular intention of playing Jailer or Linvala myself. I mentioned them only because they had already been brought up by others in this thread. Similarly, I may or may not actually find Council's Judgment worth playing. In fact, I have not yet played White Eldrazi at all. Since I have had opportunities to play 100% proxies, though, I have wanted to change things up and play a number of different decks. You are probably right that I would be better off simply racing Merfolk with an Eldrazi deck. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm more than willing to take some advice.

So, to return to the original topic, it looks like your summary would boil down to "don't do that" with respect to using xWW cards. "Pick a different strategy." The mana base just can't handle double white. It looks like @Stuart is pretty much on board with that too.

I can live with that. In fact, overall, it looks like it may be the best way to proceed.

Does anyone else draw different conclusions? What experience can anyone offer that would support or reject xWW? I'm not yet committed to a course of action. I'm really interested to learn from anyone who can tell me anything useful.


@prn The main reason to steer away from WW is because the best thing this deck has is being able to use lands that tap for 2. When you reduce Eldrazi Temple's usefulness, the deck loses its appeal. So for example, reducing to 2 temples make TKS and Smasher so much worse that it starts being better to just play mono-white hatebears instead (which is an archetype that has been gaining traction of late).

@fsecco Excellent point. And with that, I think I'll just add another temple. 🙂

I played White Eldrazi at a 9-man event yesterday. Went 2-2, beating Landstill and Dredge, and losing to Mentor and Moon Stompy.

I'm learning that White Eldrazi absolutely follows the typical hatebears trajectory: it's capable of insane starts, but if your opponent answers what you're doing, you really struggle to catch back up. (For example, in game 3 against Mentor I lead with turn 1 THC, turn 2 Smasher. I got my opponent down to 4, but then he was able to Time Walk, Abrade the Thalia, and Plow the Smasher. From there he beat me down with double Snapcaster and Mana Crypt flips, and I could never draw/resolve anything to bail me out.)

With that in mind, I think I've gotta add Balance to the board, but I'm wondering if anyone has other suggestions for cards that can catch you back up from unfavorable positions? Palace Jailer comes to mind, though I'd prefer to avoid WW if I can.

Could Staff of Domination help by tapping a creature or with card draw, or is it too expensive?

@ydl I like where your head is at, but Staff seems pretty slow (especially factoring in all the Thorn effects in this deck).

It doesn't draw cards, but maybe Master Decoy?!

. . . Nah, that's dumb. I dunno, I'll keep stewing.

It seems like there's been a recent trend towards slimming down this deck's manabase; if you look at the past 4 or 5 Eldrazi entries on MTGTop 8, everyone's seemingly cutting a few Wasteland effects for more creatures. I'd been assuming the 23-land configuration (i.e. maxed out on both mana and Wastelands) was set in stone, but seemingly that's not the case. Thoughts?

As a follow up to my last post, I went 5-0 at our recent Vintage event on White Eldrazi, playing the following manabase:

5 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Strip
3 Wasteland
4 Tomb
4 Temple
4 Cavern

So I feel like trimming a Wasteland is fine. I'm not sold on the idea of cutting any white mana (i.e. how Montolio moved the Karakas to the board), especially if you're gonna strain your Caverns by including Wingmare.

edit: clarifying that I play good cards.

last edited by Stuart

@stuart said in White Eldrazi:

As a follow up to my last post, I went 5-0 at our recent Vintage event on White Eldrazi, playing the following manabase:

5 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Strip
3 Waste
4 Tomb
4 Temple
4 Cavern

So I feel like trimming a Wasteland is fine. I'm not sold on the idea of cutting any white mana (i.e. how Montolio moved the Karakas to the board), especially if you're gonna strain your Caverns by including Wingmare.

Did you use 3x Wastes or 3x Wasteland?

@chronatog Whoops. 3 Wasteland. 3 Wastes is a bad idea.

@stuart said in White Eldrazi:

@chronatog Whoops. 3 Wasteland. 3 Wastes is a bad idea.

I see. On a separate note, one Wastes can be useful in some metagames, but in general it is more a puzzle-your-opponent-with-the-content-of-your-deck card :).

I_B_True just 5-0’d with this list, which is 4 cards off from the list I 5-0’d with last weekend.

Cheers to him, and I like his changes. In the main he’s turned 1 Revoker into a Metamorph, which somehow I’ve never considered. In the board he’s turned 1 Kataki, 1 Cage, and 1 Plow into 1 Crypt, 1 RIP, and 1 Trinisphere.

@stuart I really like metamorph addition! Going to have to try that out.

@bscheidemann I used to run metamorph here and there, was great as another way of dealing with robots and oath critters, or just to make another hasty fat man for a finisher. Never cut revoker though.

War Priest of Thune has show up in a few sideboards on mtgtop8 recently. It’s pretty cool/cute Oath hate, but can anyone here comment on their experiences with the card?

I keep wanting to try one in my board, but I’m feeling like between 3 Cage, 4 Plow, 2 Fragmentize, and 2 Null Rod I already have more than enough options, and that Smashers are the only maindeck cards that feel like obvious cuts in the matchup.

On a different note, how do you guys feel about the Paradoxical Mentor matchup? I’d kinda assumed it would be good, what with the Thorns and fast clock, but my buddy’s been consistently winning the matchup when we’re testing. Specifically, my problem’s been predicting which angle they’re gonna attack from (e.g. if I try to stop Key Vault, I get Tinker Blighsteeled).

last edited by Stuart

Hmm, not much action in the White Eldrazi thread. Oh well, onwards and upwards.

Travis Brown came in 2nd of 27 at our Vintage event this weekend, playing my list. I went 3-2 and came in 7th.

The list continues to feel good, but our meta is very blue. I'm trying to get prepped for SCGCon, and thinking I need to work on the deck's Shops matchup. To that end, last night I jammed 15 games against my buddy's Shops deck and won 4 of them. Yikes. My board was:

2 Kataki
1 Balance
4 Plow
2 Fragmentize
2 Null Rod
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Cage

I'm thinking the Balance becomes a Serenity, which is a little less broadly useful, but more devastating against Shops.

The Tormod's Crypt will probably also become another piece of Shops hate; I don't think the deck really needs more cards for Dredge. Right now I'm toying with Kill Switch or Ratchet Bomb, though those are obviously nonbos with the idea that Null Rod's one of the best things I can be doing.

Other options could be: Stony Silence, Palace Jailer, more spot removal (Path, Fragmentize, Seal of Cleansing, Disenchant, O Ring), Dust To Dust, Spyglass, Damping Sphere, Jitte, Coercive Portal, Ghost Quarter, Matter Reshaper, Endbringer, Metamorph, Horizon Canopy, Tower of the Magistrate, Ballista, Eiganjo Castle, Worship, and Wurmcoil. So there's a lot to think about!

I also think I can cut a 3rd Glowrider from the main for a 4th Wasteland. The deck should still be fine against Xerox etc, and having an extra Wasteland is obviously useful against both Shops and everything else.

@stuart Island Sanctuary would leave you exposed to only Ballista and Hangarback. With Null Rod (or Needle, Spyglass, or Linvala), you would have a full lock that their Revokers can't stop. Enlightened Tutors may help too.
Please don't misunderstand me that I'm recommending this approach - but only that I'm saying it's a possible solution.

@bazaarofbaghdad That's pretty interesting! Worship is essentially a pricier but better option, right? Under a Null Rod, it's basically a hard lock (give or take a few Dismembers ruining your day).

@stuart A couple of points. 1) While they'll side out Spheres against you game 2, once they realize your combo shenanigans, they'll likely bring them back game 3, so Worship may be a bit hard to stick. Even if it does, you have to be worried about a Ballista shooting spree, so that might not work. 2) I forgot in my earlier post, above, that in order to stop both Hangarback and Ballista, Needle or Spyglass alone won't cut it, as you have to prevent Ravager sac outlets also. So just Null Rod or Linvala or, instead, two of the others.

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