My choice for cracking this metagame is Painter. Painter's Servant on any color hoses the ramp power of Eldrazi Temple and nearly blanks Eye of Ugin. Having reasonable access to maindeck Pyroblast works wonders to slow down some of the ramp spells of the Gush decks. Having a non-attacking win condition invalidates the Wall of Monks (tm), and Painter decks can be equipped to run either a Gush or Thirst engine (URb Painter) or the explosive mana of Mishra's Workshop (Two Card Monte).
At NYSE I ran Blue Moon to a 5-3 record. I only faced 1 White Eldrazi deck, which I won, and the two games we played did not feel particularly close.
I'm not sure if that was due to my answers lining up against the lines he decided to take, or just that the lack of 1 drops combined with a robust mana base and Moon effects leads to a generally favored matchup, but the Moons did their job and kept the deck off of colorless mana.
I've been playing around with a mono-blue build and using Sapphire Medallion to help combat the sphere effects, and it's been working surprisingly well. It's more resistant to wasteland also, which is nice. It's more of an oldschool TurboTezz build right now, but I'm still working on the idea.
I agree with the above that any "answer" which cannot answer a T2 Thought-knot on the draw isn't an answer at all.
This means either proactively keeping the Eldrazi off of the table during your T1 (Thoughtseize) or instant speed removal that costs 1 or less (Plow, Dismember) or not caring at all if your opponent exiles your best card with a fast clock (Dredge). Other solutions like Moat, The Abyss, Island Sanctuary etc are more cute than effective IMO.
For what it's worth, Uba stax as a whole handles the deck pretty well:
Maindeck it has 3-4 Ensnaring Bridge, 3-4 crucible with 4 wasteland 1 strip Mine with 3-4 bazaar to find them. I feel like sticking an ensnaring bridge is almost always just GG, and having 5 strip mines to slow them down is huge.
Hope you all don't mind me digging this thread up.
I've been facing White Eldrazi more than I'd like recently. I've been playing it a bit too, to see what it's like from the other side. The creature heavy version has been especially problematic, while the artifact heavy ones are not too bad. Have there been any meaningful developments for blue decks without much artifact mana in beating White Eldrazi consistently while retaining their main game plan?
I've tried multiple combinations hate cards. 3x Thing in the Ice in the sideboard can win games, but I dislike the playstyle required by it. Whenever I play that card, I feel like I'm no longer playing an intricate game of Magic, but rather playing whatever to take counters off of this card.
Massacre is a card I have in my sideboard as a one-of (trying it against Survival), but I dislike it against White Eldrazi. The toughness on White Eldrazi creatures is too varied, and the deck tends to play around 1-2 creatures per turn, consistently, which is bad against a single use partial board wipe.
The Abyss is pretty good against the artifact heavy version alongside Hurkyl's and Back to Basics. It is very bad against the creature heavy version. By the time it can be cast, you're usually looking at 3-4 creatures, and are at around 8-10 life points.
Thankfully this deck is pretty bad against Shops, so it is kept in check. But that one of their lands (without drawbacks) completely invalidates counterspells often leads to boring games. Too often I've seen people just quit matches after seeing Thalia + Thorns/Sphere put to play. Which combinations cards could blue decks without a ton of artifacts use to deal with White Eldrazi without deviating too much from their game plan?
@juice-mane The deck is designed to disrupt and essentially destroy Xerox decks. Most of the options that you are listing will not get you there. You need to play enough basics to avoid Wasteland and enough removal to stop the fast creatures.
I recommend Swords and bolts when playing blue Xerox. If you are on PO just race them. If you are Shops, you just win. Also, Oath has a fairly good game against them. Goblin Crater Maker is a card that can help you a lot now.
@moorebrother1 I play four basics: three in the maindeck and one in the sideboard. Land destruction doesn't feel too bad.
Bolt and Swords are good, but ideally you'd want three or four total in your 75. Maybe add two or three to that number considering Snapcaster flashback. I think (though my opinions may change) single use removal doesn't create enough advantage to warrant adding more than three or four because of the many two-for-ones in White Eldrazi. Goblin Cratermaker can be very good when it works, but you run into similar problems as with other removal spells. You have a lot less removal than they have creatures, and each of their creatures is designed to prey on your playstyle, while your removal, usually, only mitigates the disadvantage created by these creatures.
Essentially, the problem is that the sweet spot for the number of targeted creature removal in xerox decks is, in my opinion, around three or four, while White Eldrazi has around 26-27 creatures maindeck. Many of these creatures flat out stop your game plan, and you can't stop them from being cast when they're using Cavern. Some of your best cards will be exiled from your hand (!) by TKS as fast as T1 (i.e. too bad if you kept your Mentor hand). Some of your cards will, inevitably, be discarded when targeting Reality Smasher, thanks to its 5/5 body. Your fetchlands will come into play tapped and probably be wastelanded.
The matchup as it is feels too dependent on winning the coin flip. I'm wondering if there are other obscure cards that haven't been tried that could mitigate this.
@juice-mane Not sure if it suits your configuration, but if you're running white maybe give Porphory Nodes a try? Obviously it won't be so good if you're also flooding the board with creatures, but if you can win with a more creature-less approach, that might help some.
@juice-mane said in Cards/Decks/Strategies against White Eldrazi:
@hrishi Porphyry Nodes has great potential. Have you tried them yourself? If so, how useful have they been?
I've tried them before, but not in a Xerox-style deck. They worked fine for that type of deck, but I'm not sure how well it would translate over. That's why I'm not entirely sure how well it would work for you!
@juice-mane When playing Xerox, you have to pick your lane against any deck and against the Eldrazi it is very hard to be a true control deck. You cannot out Aggro them without an early Mentor so you need to go more broken and combo. I know this is not a great answer but most Xerox players do not view this deck as a bad match up.
This deck is not easy to beat but Survival and Dredge are much harder to beat. This deck has no way to use the graveyard, no search and plays are a pure tempo deck. Thought-knot and Smasher make life hard but not any harder than a Ravager with Ballista. Learning this match may mean just looking for the fastest way to win instead of looking for a way to control the board.
Personally, I have been on either Blue Moon or RUG with with 4 Snapcasters and 3 Bolts. I play 2 Niv-Mizzet and when I played against the deck I either push a Blood Moon and race out a Niv-Mizzet either will just win me the game.
@moorebrother1 I appreciate your insight. Just racing them isn't a bad option. I don't agree with you that Dredge and Survival are more difficult to beat. Xerox feels pretty evenly matched against Survival (excepting the 'nut' hands), and Dredge is not bad postboard.
I've been under the impression that Xerox and other Blue players were relieved they aren't seeing White Eldrazi as much as they used to. You come across such comments pretty often whenever White Eldrazi is discussed. Fittingly for a deck designed to prey on Xerox decks, think it's the single worst matchup in the meta for Xerox. Shops is a very strong deck, but it is very weak to certain sideboard cards, unlike Eldrazi. Glowrider and Thalia stick way harder than artifact sphere effects.
Blood Moon could easily be fit into a Xerox sideboard. Blood Moon + Null Rod / Ancient Grudge would win many games.
@juice-mane I tried it back-when. It was baaaayyyd. Way to slow and if they are running Smasher, which they are. It's way way way too slow. Instead, if you are Xerox, you want a bunch of swords and a bunch of snapcasters. If you really want to go deep then Fire/Ice can be good to try to value town them on a Thalia + Wingmare or a Revoker. Baby Jace is decent too. Basically you just stay alive and grind out a card advantage with draw spells + graveyard value (Snapcaster/JVP). I've found that its about reaching critical mass on cheap removal spells, since they really can't draw cards. If you run them out of their hand and you are alive, then you likely just win.
@stuart Yeah, that's a great point. Honestly the "easiest" way is to just drop an early mentor and own the board with tokens. I don't run a lot of pyromancer, but I presume that would be similar? Is pyromancer a SB card against white eldrazi? Strikes me as a slightly odd choice, but could be a thing.