[ZRN] Omnath, Locus of Creation

Dragon is partially correct. There are 2 ways stax can win

  1. make you not cast spells, if you can cast omnath you can cast spells so shops must be on plan
  2. make your spells not matter then get stax in play then plan 1 again.

In this case omnath is not very impressive either because he fails to handle the things that make your spells not matter, bridge/spyglass/cage/golos recursive land loops. Also karakas.

You should all drop whatever definitions you have about this game. There are more than 2 ways that shops can win. There is more than 1 way that you can win. There is more than 1 way to build any given deck. Very few cards are equal, most are incredibly abstract. Very few players are equal, most are incredibly eccentric. Even after you test comprehensively and define things to your own standards you should consider all other options. Each new card that exists has the potential to fundamentally change all other cards.

@pilsburydohboy42

  1. Not shops in general specifically stax see post chain.
  2. No, it is unwise to reinvent your entire understanding of the game constantly the rules are still the same and the lessons you learned in the past are usually still valid. If that were true then the restricted list should be scrapped every set release.
  3. The ways I describe are the fundamental functions of stax if you wish to say it wins other ways you must then also accept that standstill is a beatdown deck, DPS is a mill deck, and servant combo is an aggro deck. These are theoretical paths to victory shure but they are not the design of the decks in question. DPS can play mill by dropping necro and watching you deck out, but that is a very poor way of understanding how it works. It is far more useful to talk about decks in terms of their primary/secondary/tertiary/quaternary/ect plans then in terms of of theoretical possible victory paths. Those are stax's 2 plans there are no more and no less and it does a disservice to the discussion to do as you do here and say any deck can win any way so it is pointless to describe deck paths to victory in terms of a limited number of set paths.
last edited by Botvinik

@botvinik Interesting, I find it to be a disservice to discussion when somebody says something like "this card might be good, here are a few scenarios in which it has proven successful for me: {examples}." and almost immediately like 9 other people jump in with 1 line arguments about how this card totally sucks and could never work, it's impossible to play a 4 color card in vintage, you should just play Tezzeret, etc,. Especially within the context of a new card thread; we're not talking about a deck, a metagame - nothing other than "can this card be good?"

@pilsburydohboy42

If you intend this as a general statement you are correct the dogpile is unhelpful although that is because of a difference in numbers rather than a structural issue with the type of question/statement. If it is intended in reference of me personally you may want to reread my posts on this thread as your criticisms are ill fitting. I would not normally assume you were referring to me personally but you literally @ed me so I am lead to that conclusion.

last edited by Botvinik

I am responsive to this criticism.

I have now rebuilt the deck as an Oath deck.

Omnath is the only creature I can Oath into in the MD (SB has an Archon of Vigor).

The deck's name is Omnoath.

Currently 2-0 in league matches ☺

Edit: Finished 4-1 😞

last edited by chubbyrain1

@chubbyrain1 I like this idea. In theory, though it may be less busted than GB or emrakul, it is hard castable and should net you 4 life and enable 7+ mana on turn 2-3, which should allow for some broken plays. Not sure what those plays would be, but it could be something.

I like this approach, whether it works or not, because it truly evaluates the strength/merits of omnath. It's not just a singleton in a deck that wins whether you ever see him (or just pitch him) or not.

@thewhitedragon69 I've been using Sevinne's Reclamation to either Breach kill, bring back a couple walkers, or trigger the 3rd ability to clean up planeswalkers.

Does the deck evaluate the strengths of Omnath or the strength of Oath of Druid in a format that has a lot of BUG/Bazaar decks?

Does the deck evaluate the strengths of Omnath or the pretty heavy permission suite with a ton of Blue cards and disruption to make the Forces work (without as much inconsistently as Oath typically has when you have a Griselbrand in your hand)?

Does the deck evaluate the strength of Omnath or the power of the cantrip-Delve card engine letting you win the late game with whatever you want, provided you can consistently get there?

The goal of any deck should be to have cards that work together and I think trying to pull out parts and look at them in isolation loses sight of the bigger picture.

To that end, I don't know how to really answer your question any more than I did before by playing it in a Lutri shell. Omnath is just doing the same things he was doing before more frequently in this shell.

Record now is 7-1 for what it's worth but again, that's not what I'm trying to do here. My main goal is to convey the general strategies I'm pursuing with this card and the results.

@chubbyrain1 I definitely think this is a better way to feature omnath, as you presumably almost always kill with omnath or see him almost every game. Being a 1-of is fine in this context, because you have him hit play 95% of the time...not 5%. If you find that you are oathing and killing with breach almost every time, than omnath could be almost anything and it would make no difference...but I suspect you are actually doing a lot with omnath as a kill card. I imagine you are probably fetching after oathing up omnath and using that +4 mana to cast Sevine's for the Breach, which is displaying the power of omnath as much as anything. Again, I don't know if it's really better than GB here, but it should at least have some action when it hits play, nearly every game.

I never really though Omnath was bad...I just didn't care for 5-0 records of a singleton card in a deck that won 80+% of the games without ever seeing him as evidence of "he's good."

This is at least slightly more Omnathy because it would be more impactful in this deck to replace him with a blank card then it would have been in the Lutri deck. If that is meaningful information is questionable but it is more omanth centric data.

  • 120
    Posts
  • 8994
    Views