[IKO] Lurrus of the Dream-Den

@protoaddict the remaining color pairs are RW and UW. while it is entirely possible that the UW one ends up being broken because Blue, i think "you don't get to play artifacts in the same deck as this"(they are unlikely to print something specifically against moxen) would have been the RG one.

@blindtherapy You know the UW one is going to be something stupid like:

1{U/W}{U/W}
"You can't play enchantments that cost 1 or less in your starting deck"
When you cast a spell, you win the game
Indestructible, can't be countered
50/50

...because that's how blue rolls in Vintage.

I almost don't think you can do it with a creature or without breaking standard. It would have to be something so narrowly tailored to the format that they were obviously building it just to foster a new archetype.

G
Your starting deck cannot contain any artifacts that cost 1 or less
Hexproof, flying
Null rod/Grafdiggers cage
1/1

I have been toying around with the idea of using Living Wish to get around the restriction of playing Lurrus in a normal-ish xerox shell. My first look (below) has been a four-color build eschewing red.

Lurrus's Living Wish

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Mishra's Bauble
1 Lotus Petal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Black Lotus

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

4 Living Wish
1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
1 Time Walk

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Force of Negation
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Gush
1 Mental Misstep
1 Veil of Summer
1 Force of Vigor
2 Swords to Plowshares

2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Strip Mine

SB
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Lurrus of the Dream Den
1 Managorger Hydra
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Wasteland

The thought process that led me here was that Lurrus looping things for value was threatening enough as its own engine and disrupting it was taxing on the amount of removal that I have been seeing recently. Living Wish represented a way to pull a Mentor in from the sideboard after forcing you opponent to spend resources fighting the Lurrus.

The secondary benefit to me was a better and possibly even good (I have only seen the matchups a few times) plan vrs. Dredge and Hollowvine in game one with the ability to find a Tabernacle and possibly lock them out. I was successful with this in my testing so far which seems promising.

The option to find and put a non-blue threat into play has also been useful at navigating Pyroblast matchups but I have struggled with counter wars as a result and don't have the raw card advantage and threat density of a normal BUG list to contend with that issue. You either play Wish into green threat and then you countermagic gets overwhelmed by theirs or you burn all of your blue cards fighting early then don't have anything to power up a mentor/hydra. I won all the games where I had a turn one Deathrite Shaman and usually struggled otherwise.

Things I am trying to figure out still: do I want the Mox Ruby and Lotus Petal or would I prefer some greater # of Baubles in those slots? Is the fourth Deathrite better in the main or board to be fetched? How many threats do I need/want in the main? Should I be trying to find space for Mystic Remora as it pairs very well with Lurrus? How do I contend with the Shops MU? I am not killing fast enough to be totally happy with Hurkyl's nor can I play more durable hate like Energy Flux. I have not been unhappy with the Wish board configuration so far, but always happy to hear opinions.

All in all I have had enough success to suggest trying something in this vein out as a means to circumvent the drawback of a powerful card.

@nofuture said in [IKO] Lurrus of the Dream-Den:

I have been toying around with the idea of using Living Wish to get around the restriction of playing Lurrus in a normal-ish xerox shell. My first look (below) has been a four-color build eschewing red.

Lurrus's Living Wish

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Mishra's Bauble
1 Lotus Petal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Black Lotus

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

4 Living Wish
1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
1 Time Walk

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Force of Negation
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Gush
1 Mental Misstep
1 Veil of Summer
1 Force of Vigor
2 Swords to Plowshares

2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Strip Mine

SB
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Lurrus of the Dream Den
1 Managorger Hydra
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Wasteland

The thought process that led me here was that Lurrus looping things for value was threatening enough as its own engine and disrupting it was taxing on the amount of removal that I have been seeing recently. Living Wish represented a way to pull a Mentor in from the sideboard after forcing you opponent to spend resources fighting the Lurrus.

The secondary benefit to me was a better and possibly even good (I have only seen the matchups a few times) plan vrs. Dredge and Hollowvine in game one with the ability to find a Tabernacle and possibly lock them out. I was successful with this in my testing so far which seems promising.

The option to find and put a non-blue threat into play has also been useful at navigating Pyroblast matchups but I have struggled with counter wars as a result and don't have the raw card advantage and threat density of a normal BUG list to contend with that issue. You either play Wish into green threat and then you countermagic gets overwhelmed by theirs or you burn all of your blue cards fighting early then don't have anything to power up a mentor/hydra. I won all the games where I had a turn one Deathrite Shaman and usually struggled otherwise.

Things I am trying to figure out still: do I want the Mox Ruby and Lotus Petal or would I prefer some greater # of Baubles in those slots? Is the fourth Deathrite better in the main or board to be fetched? How many threats do I need/want in the main? Should I be trying to find space for Mystic Remora as it pairs very well with Lurrus? How do I contend with the Shops MU? I am not killing fast enough to be totally happy with Hurkyl's nor can I play more durable hate like Energy Flux. I have not been unhappy with the Wish board configuration so far, but always happy to hear opinions.

All in all I have had enough success to suggest trying something in this vein out as a means to circumvent the drawback of a powerful card.

Interesting take for sure! Cool idea utilizing Living Wish. However, the question still remaining to be answered is whether it's really worth it to play suboptimal cards like Mishra's Bauble (and Living Wish) in exhange for getting an occasional free 3/2?

Don't get me wrong, I do like the innovation, but I'm just not convinced that Lurrus is actually good enough to warrant replacing Narset, Teferi, Dack and Mentor, Leovold etc. (although with your approach you still have access to those) with it.

As for the Shops matchup, I would strongly consider Serenity. It can be clunky and not good enough on it's own, but it combos so well with Lurrus that it would be the first anti-Shops-plan I would try out if I were to play around with Lurrus.
You could also try something like Qasali Pridemage. It's not very strong on it's own against modern Shops decks but it also combos well with Lurrus and is Living Wishable.

last edited by Griselbrother

@griselbrother I think you not only DON'T lose mentor and leovold, but you get 4x demonic tutors to grab them. They always stay in the SB so Lurrus is always on.

You lose a miser's narset and other 3cmc walkers, but Lurrus is essentially a walker here that recurs creatures/baubles.

Serenity is an underrated beauty.

After a day or so of tinkering with the deck I think that @Griselbrother was correct about the dubious value of Lurrus + Bauble as an engine. They were as a whole slightly less powerful than just playing some of the more standard cards (Dack, 3feri, narscet etc.) however that engine + mystic remora has thus far been more than enough to justify losing those cards.

This is the new list I am working with:
Lurrus's Living Wish

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
3 Mishra's Bauble
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Tarmogoyf
2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

3 Mystic Remora

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Force of Negation
1 Gush
1 Mental Misstep
1 Force of Vigor
2 Swords to Plowshares

2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Strip Mine

4 Living Wish
1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
1 Time Walk

Sideboard

1 Monastery Mentor
1 Lurrus of the Dream Den
1 Managorger Hydra
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Wasteland
1 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Serenity

My experience with this iteration has boiled down to the following you are looking for a hand that on turn 1 plays Deathrite, Remora, or Lavinia (added a 2nd one) and should feel confident in finding one of those things or a truly broken 'vintage' hand. This primary plans means often you are casting Living Wish in either a position where you are up a ton of cards and it locks in a winning position or where both you and your opponent are down to no resources and you get to slam a high value threat going into a topdeck war.

I initially envisioned this deck as a sort of having your cake and eating it too situation (mentor or hydra powered up by the lurrus engine) but the reality is its more like having your cake and then a sandwich for later in that you want to fully commit to plan a. with the confidence you will find a 4 of card to pull the right piece in if that fails.

Other changes are adding two Serenitys for the shops matchups, The Ramunap got cut because it was too ambitious a plan and I added a basic plains to bring in as a 61st card in Xerox mirrors. The Yixlid and Kataki have been okay but not great I can even see one of them becoming a Lavinia who has been incredible. Spellbomb and the singleton maindeck goyf have both been powerful and worth keeping.

I'd love to hear thoughts if anyone else has picked up the deck or just has ideas after reading all of this. I also imagine there is a world where you drop the black cards and the Leovold and try either straight Bant or try adding red with a W6 package + more wasteland effects.

last edited by nofuture

Couldn't the Baubles be Standstills and you run Ramunap and maybe a man-land or 2 in your board? Even getting a Dr. shaman in under a standstill, then pop it draw 3, Companion, replay Standstill is a good setup, and not too uncommon? Also ups your blue count. Just a thought.

@Serracollector While I do love a recurable draw 3 I think that Lurrus + Standstill is a different deck from the one I built. My experience with Standstill decks is that you need both more lands than I play (22-23 instead of my 18) more countermagic shoot for 10 or so hard counters and some bigger threats to slam alá JTMS. I'm sure that there is a deck out there that uses Lurrus and Standstill but its not this particular one.

I would also mention that I don't know if Lurrus solves any of the problems Standstill has currently has; usually if you play enough copies of Standstill to have it be a plan a. then you will find another copy naturally after you opponent pop's yours and makes you draw 3. So the question is what does the standstill plan gain from Lurrus? When you answer that one a good secondary question would be how am I going to get enough mana into play such that I can play Lurrus, Standstill and protect them in the same turn? After that you are probably well on your way to a good deck, best of luck!

  • 26
    Posts
  • 4707
    Views