@stormanimagus memory journey is to not get decked without shuffling back key cards (gaea's blessing's substitute for a graveyard dependant oath) and mind funeral beats dredge decks that play only 4 bazaar as lands... in theory at least.

@stormanimagus said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?

Also, Mind Funeral WTF?

What you have to understand is that this deck actively uses the graveyard as the hand on the turn you oath. There are times when it's correct to oath with zero oath targets in deck, mill yourself, then memory's journey in your upkeep with escape to put specific cards on top to draw. Journey is the best option I think, instant speed, has flashback, blue to pitch to force.

Also, the idea behind mind funeral was to go away from the pseudo-prison role that nearly every deck has to play against dredge and instead play 4 cards that just actively win the game when cast. Standard dredge lists play 4 bazaar and mulls to 1 of them, so mind funeral should always put them to zero cards in deck. It's also a very quick and easy kill if you ever manage to resolve an oath trigger to get back breach, even if they've made 100 zombies you can never fight through.

It has worked in practice, but I think three mana is too slow even with all the mana rocks I'm playing.

@notmi

I've been trying your Breach Oath build out on MTGO practice rooms and wanted to ask you a few questions.

How you combat other combo decks that are faster than you?

Your previous build used Vault/Key as a wincon. How is this version winning through zombie/pyromancer tokens or a few shops creatures?

Would you consider Saheeli (this was suggested to me on Twitter) to win the turn Titan enters play? Would this just make it the old Saheeli Titan Oath? Does Breach make that build stronger?

@pugsuperstar said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

@notmi

I've been trying your Breach Oath build out on MTGO practice rooms and wanted to ask you a few questions.

How you combat other combo decks that are faster than you?

Your previous build used Vault/Key as a wincon. How is this version winning through zombie/pyromancer tokens or a few shops creatures?

Would you consider Saheeli (this was suggested to me on Twitter) to win the turn Titan enters play? Would this just make it the old Saheeli Titan Oath? Does Breach make that build stronger?

Against decks like PO and DPS, you slide into a control role with tons of counterspells and look to play a xerox game until you eventually win, often with some incidental wincon like oko beats or attacking with a hardcast sun titan. I actually tend to trim an oath against the super fast combo decks, because the games are rarely about resolving an early oath.

The vault/key stuff has been replaced with a much more efficient wincon in bolt. You can just bolt them 7 times, bolt is less dead in most matchups, and it takes up way fewer slots mainboard and sideboard.

I would not consider saheeli at all. Breach is significantly better than the old saheeli lists because breach is actually a playable vintage card that is reasonable to put in your deck without any kind of combo. Saheeli is pretty awful to put in your deck. Generally speaking, hardcasting and resolving a breach wins the game a decent percentage of the time. Hardcasting and resolving a saheeli is a wasted turn.

If you're putting a titan into play, getting back breach, and mill over 20 or so cards, you should be able to figure out a way to win from there. It might involve time walks and okos, it might involve bolts, or some other combination of cards, but it's hard to lose when you draw 20 cards.

So a non-oath list won the challenge this week which had breach as a one-of. I have been at around 70% win in league with my multiple breach list that is 4 color (no green), anyone else experimenting ? Is it time to make a couple deck threads?

@garbageaggro
I’m definitely interested in your list!

@wfain Our friend @chubbyrain took it down. Here is his list
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Underworld Breach
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Repeal
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Negation
1 Gush
1 Brain Freeze
1 Mental Misstep
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Dack Fayden
3 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
4 Preordain
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
Sideboard
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Containment Priest
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fragmentize
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Hydroblast
1 Infernal Reckoning
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wear / Tear
1 Lightning Bolt

last edited by moorebrother1

@moorebrother1 That list is a bit disappointing to me from a builder's perspective. Isn't that basically Jeskai mentor but replacing 2x dreadhordes with a miser copy of underworld breach and brainfreeze for "oops, combo" wins? Breach is likely red yawg-will here and the brainfreeze will just fuel it and delve spells and randomly steal a win off dredge. I'm sure the cards are great here - but doesn't jeskai mentor just win anyway, even if you never see these spells? I was hoping more for a breach list - not an established list just using breach as yawg will.

Lion's Eye Diamond is a Jeskai Mentor card?

The entire thought process behind the deck was to build a xerox style strategy with a powerful combo finish to beat other xerox decks, if I recall chubby's statements correctly. It is notably dipping into black as a 4th color in order to facilitate that, which pretty obviously separates it from normal jeskai mentor.

@smmenen it is now, lol
Seriously though. Lion's eye diamond is obviously a Burning wish Tendrils card.

Would a tinker be worth trying in that list?

I am playing tinker in my list as an additional copy of LED/Lotus and since it is already good there, also a way to grab citadel. Which while it isn't as good as it is in PO is still pretty dang impactful.

@smmenen That's a bit disingenuous. There are only a few cards different here, mainly replacing dreadhorde to get quick burst/combo value in place of long term "double all your 1cmc spells" value. That's like me taking Ravager shops, replacing 3 cards with stonecoil when it was printed and calling it a new deck.

Not dogging the deck. It still looks as powerful as, say, jeskai mentor, but with 3-4 cards changed to add a synergistic combo. I was just saying I was hoping to see a new archetype/deck come out of this card, not just a copy added to an established deck type. This deck is fine for what it is, it's just not what I was hoping this new card would breed - from a builder's pov.

Here's a list I've been tinkering with:

// V_1_Underworld breach

// 61 Maindeck
// 9 Artifact
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire

// 5 Creature
1 Thassa's Oracle
4 Arclight Phoenix

// 4 Enchantment
4 Underworld Breach

// 20 Instant
1 Mental Misstep
1 Dig Through Time
3 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Force of Will
1 Force of Negation
2 Pact of Negation
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
1 Brainstorm
3 Abrade

// 14 Land
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Tolarian Academy

// 9 Sorcery
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Merchant Scroll

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Narset, Parter of Veils

// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Soul-Guide Lantern

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan

// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Trickbind
SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Abrade

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tinker

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

Is Thought Scour better in the 4 Underworld Breach decks than Preordain? I've found that early Underworld Breach seems anemic without enough fuel (both mana and cards in the graveyard).

@yangtime I think the card selection of preordain is just too strong compared to thought scour. You want stuff in your GY, but that's what brain freeze is for. Rather than build a GY over time, you just brain freeze yourself for 12+ and go to town off a breach. Several games get won on chaining things like moxen into preordain into gush into brain freeze for 20ish and swinging with 3-4x phoenix with FoW in hand (or time walk if you have the mana).

Honestly i am still trying to figure out the best version of breach, but tbh i think it wants to run Intuition. It is insanely powerful with breach and makes it easy to set up kills in one card.

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