@moorebrother1 You cannot. When you cast a spell, you remove it from its current zone and place it on the stack, so the Ancestral won't be in the graveyard to be cast again.

@moorebrother1 there is no new interaction here, it's the same as snapcaster or anything else. the original spell is still on the stack until it is countered, so you can't cast it again in response to the counter.

@moorebrother1 However, once it is countered, you can just recast it. It goes back to the grave and is not exiled with yawg will. Having it FoWed, only to cast it again feels like a win.

@fsecco There are only 2 Delve spells and they both pitch to Force of Will. You’ll always be able to run them with other GY cards for that reason. If they were still unrestricted maybe not.

@vaughnbros that's where I don't think I agree. Casting DTT makes Breach worse by 2 castings. So imagine you have 7 cards in our GY where 1 is Ancestral. You can cast it twice off Breach or 0 times if you find Breach with DTT.
The real question is: would you rather resolve DTT now for UU or 2 Ancestrals later for 1RUU?

people played more than 2 delve spells when it was possible to do so. if we treat breach like a delve spell playing 1 isn't that much strain. of course, I'm just skipping the step where this card is broken as hell and gets restricted in this model, because this card is broken as hell.

I know WOTC does not care about vintage and does not plan card designs around the format, but they have to know that is going to be restricted already right?

I can already see this getting banned in modern as well because Phoenix builds can abuse the hell out of it, and it may be better than past in flames in some decks in that format.

@blindtherapy we played a lot of Delve spells in decks that didn't use the graveyard other than that. Also, extra DTT, Cruise would make excellent FoW fodder. I don't know if this reasoning works with Breach. The cards in your graveyard aren't just numbers, you need good stuff there too.

@protoaddict Imagine this with Thought Scour, it fuels itself and you get to draw and dig for Phoenix for very cheap.

@wagner said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:

@protoaddict Imagine this with Thought Scour, it fuels itself and you get to draw and dig for Phoenix for very cheap.

In the other formats people are looking at its interactions with Rituals which is also quite scary. Not so much with Cabal ritual, very much so with rite of flames.

In my casual deck, this monster even makes Taigam's Scheming seem pretty good!

I've top 8'd the past two vintage challenges with sun titan oath bringing back underworld breach. The deck feels pretty absurd since even if you're not winning by casting time walk 10 times, you often just bolt them 7 times. Two mana hardcast yawgwill has been good as a random value card on several occasions, but I think the card specifically shines in oath because it means your oath triggers actually win the game instead of you having to pass back.

I've followed your lists. Congrats on the finishes. How clunky were the "dead" combo pieces in the first iteration? Did the second list run smoother without those or does it just not matter since you win with the activation anyway?

Honestly, the first list felt really smooth even with the combo pieces, and I naturally vault-keyed people multiple times without oath triggers just by playing a xerox game. Cutting things down to a more streamlined control deck in the second iteration was largely because the combo pieces felt unneeded in games where I actually resolved an oath trigger.

Also, I say the combo heavy first iteration felt smooth, but several people after me tried the list and had pretty terrible runs with it, so I think I might have just drawn the right half of the deck at the right times. The second list has a lot less dead cards while retaining a high probability to win with a single oath trigger, so I think it's a better version.

I've tried the second list and being able to combo on the spot have been amazing. I was struggling against dredge because even though I got to activate oath against it like 80% of the time, I had less than 50% win rate. I just played a few matches against them and it seems way better of a matchup now. The only thing is that now list gets hit by graveyard hate. But this still seems better than the other versions and breach has been awesome.

The thing I enjoy most about the deck compared to the more standard japanese oath lists is knowing that my oath triggers will usually just win the game. It always felt awful oathing into something, drawing some cards, then having to pass back and hope it was enough.

I think that a deck siding in grave hate, aside from cage, is actually good for the oath deck. Cage is obviously really good because it stops pretty much everything, but the more common grave hate answers in leyline and rav trap are actively bad when you can just transition into a xerox deck and pressure them with oko.

what do these decks actually LOOK like at this point?

@stormanimagus

This is what I played to a top 8 two weeks ago and have been playing in leagues since. I skipped the challenge last week, but this maindeck is still very good imo. The sideboard from this list is terrible, I was trying to play mind funeral to beat dredge as a meme, and I'm still trying different hate cards, but mind funeral is not the answer lol. I'm gonna run the maindeck card for card next challenge though.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2705391#online

last edited by notmi

What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?

Also, Mind Funeral WTF?

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